Safe, Sane and Consensual

Safe, Sane and Consensual
Speaker: Bad^
October 1997

The Importance of a Safety Net

*** topic on channel #submission_discuss to Safe, Sane and Consensual: Speaker Bad^

fireNdark: Folks, let's remember after giving our guest our full attention tonight...if you have a question or comment at the end, type it like that ? or ! It will get noted and you will be called on. And as always......let's keep the "meets and greets" down once we start. :)

fireNdark: Ladies and Gentlemen/Doms and subs......that's no ordinary whip cracking, please welcome : Bad^

Bad^ pulls down a leather whip snapping it several times just to relieve tension. Bad smiles and places it gently back in its hooks.

Bad^: Bad steps up to the microphone tapping it it Thump Thump... Is this on? Tasting tasting... One two three... Ahh yes... Good!

Bad^: Good evening and welcome to submission_discuss on Efnet. My nick is Bad^ and I am pleased and honored to be presenting some thoughts on three basic tenants of responsible D/s exploration. Safe Sane and Consensual.

Bad^: The first part of my presentation will be moderated as I share some definitions and interpretations as well as more subtle considerations regarding the first steps towards sharing a D/s involvement.

Bad^: From there we will do moderated questions for a short bit then open the floor up to wide discussion.

Bad^: Who am I to speak to this topic? I am a 45 year old Dominant from Texas with real life experience as well as a long presence in cyberspace. But beyond that, I have been involved in supporting the battered family and spousal abuse centers in the communities I have lived in, for the past 20 years. Trust, I will address the differences between reasonable D/s exploration from light to extreme play... as compared to abuse or co-dependant contracts

Bad^: I am host to the rapidly growing web site Whipping Post / ChainLinks. http://members.aol.com/MrBadSir/bad/wppd.home.html where a more detailed bio can be found. I am also founder of #D/sAdventures on Dalnet and I often stop here in #submission as well as a few other channels. I am co-founding a Dalnet channel called SafeSane Consensual as a resource for discussion and learning.

Bad^: But my pride and joy is Whipping Post / Chain Links. Originally designed as part of a now defunct channel web site, I opted to continue developing the place as a resource for all channels and D/s web surfers to bookmark and explore.

Bad^: The WHIPPING POST Newcomers section is a key purpose to the channel for "new folks" and the ChainLinks ppage permits couples and Tops to find new avenues to explore and links to begin to learn the techniques. If you are new or considering entering into or enhancing your D/s BDSM experience. Be sure to examine this web site. Also the submission web site at http://www.submission.net *They have added safety links in addition to the essays we had. Two more essays have been added today. I would be remiss not to mention the Motha of all D/s websites D/sKiosk http://www.cuffs.com/ from Artful and natasha_

Bad^: And a book you should get if you are serious about this lifestyle SM101 by Jay Wiseman: Greenery Press http:www.bigrock.com/greenery/

Bad^: Finally My e-mail is MrBadSir@aol.com

Bad^: ----End of shameless self promotion---

Bad^: Some words about my words. I mean no offense if I refer to the Master, leader, or Top as the Dom. I also imply Domme ( Female Top). I often write from my particularly male vantage point. the words and genders may generally be interchanged to fit your own perspectives.

Bad^: D/s: Domination /submission. This is the main heading under which many behaviors fall.

Bad^: Bondage, Discipline/Training, Sadism, Masochism, Pain Play, Humiliation, Nonsexual Submissive Service and Sexual Submissive Service.

Bad^: To each of you gathered here, even those in couples... you relate to each above listed behavior, as an individual. Some you find attractive. Some curious, and some personally objectionable. Each behavior has it's own appeal, interest or tolerance level in you as well.

Bad^: On a scale of one to ten you would well assign different numbers to the different elements, some being mild some being rather intense perhaps.

Bad^: The one thing all these behaviors have in common is; they all involve Domination /submission. They all involve a willing Power Exchange.

Bad^: I would like to take a minute here to make a very important observation that is often overlooked or misrepresented by some web pages, books or cyberspace preachers. D/s is not, by definition, a method for "different" sex. Let me say that again.

Bad^: Domination and submission is NOT automatically about sex. It CAN be sexual in nature. Many of the practices I just listed are often a foreplay of sorts to some very powerful physical experiences including sexual climax, Often, it is hard not to find the behaviors erotic.

Bad^: But the folks who state in their web sites or channels that D/s or BDSM is a way to have a "special enhanced sex" experience are missing a point. the real active ingredient, or dynamic is Power and Control. Power Exchange. This in itself is an awesome intimacy and is not to be confused with or limited to sexual interaction, though the two admittedly often travel hand in hand.

Bad^: The "Dom/Domme" that trains you to understand D/s or BDSM as a way to bring him or her sexual gratification as the primary goal, is not giving you the entire picture. Working to please or submit to someone is a wonderful, powerful demonstration of giving and dedication. Never let it be sold short. But let it have an investment in both parties needs and desires. It can be a genderless exchange.

Bad^: It can be a chemical/hormonal ecstacy quite unlike an orgasm. Learn more about subspace and endorphins and adrenalyn and the different types of body /mind arousal.

Bad^: Which brings me to one other point, the nature of the submissive. To submit to someone isn't to be a doormat.

Bad^: In my own experience I know some very intelligent well centered strong willed people. Very opinionated on issues of the day, very involved in the world and environment around them. Often a force to be reckoned with in their own rite. When such a person agrees to submit to me... it is a most special gift.

Bad^: Submission: To commit to the discretion or decision of another or of others To Yield, Surrender.

Bad^: This is a voluntary action. It isn't deciding to allow someone to use your body in any fashion they please.

Bad^: SAFE-SANE-CONSENSUAL. abbreviated at times as SSC

Bad^: SAFE: -- looking out for each other's personal safety.

Bad^: SANE -- looking out for each other's mental/emotional health.

Bad^: CONSENSUAL -- Both partners are: sober, of legal age, and are making their choices with informed consent.

Bad^: D/s BDSM does not mean rape, it does not mean emotional and physical abuse or battering. If you do not consent, it should not happen.

Bad^: I shall start with Consensual. whether you know it or not... every contact or exchange in D/s..is a "Contract". A contract meaning, people agree to do or permit certain things in exchange for certain considerations. A Power EXCHANGE.

Bad^: I agree to spank my sub, understanding her limits as far as pain or endurance. She may permit me to tie her down but not permit me to touch her in certain ways. Perhaps no tickling or no anal contact no enema.....whatever. It is a contract of trust.

Bad^: Even in a relationship that seems to have no "contract" People have not selected each other in a vacumn. the old couple that has been "at this for years" found each other and agreed to explore places or lead each other places after a base mutual consent. She was relatively sure he wasn't a Charles Manson. He was fairly safe in the asumption she wasn't a Lorena Bobbit.

Bad^: In those places on line that promote "slavery" or total submission. it is easy to believe a "real Dom" or a "real sub" will permit an "anything goes" relationship. But the truth of the matter is in r/l ( Real Life) there are "understandings" or Contracts that have evolved of mutual interests and trusts.

Bad^: I do not mean to take Gorean fantasy play or Rapesex "play" to task. But I do wish to promote D/s as a generally healthy responsible ( albeit different) lifestyle choice. To comply with local laws or at the minimum, civilized respect and compassion for a fellow human being, certain base rules must be adhered to.

Bad^: So Consensual means, "Contracting" or agreeing on what will be "explored" and to what degree. What will be permitted? What will not? There is a tool that serves both the Dom and the sub well under the the heading of Consensual. the Safeword.

Bad^: The Safeword is a way for the sub to express the limits of the contract are being reached. Traditional safewords include "Yellow Light". a phrase the sub will express to say "Caution!" Perhaps to slow down lighten up, or to be careful about a new direction in contact. Red Light is often used to bring a direct and complete halt to all contact or behavior.

Bad^: Dom's and subs may choose their own words... but it is strongly advised that such a Safeword system be in place as folks who are new to each other, begin to explore.

Bad^: There are two other reasons Safewords are advantageous in all D/s contact. They are liberating! They allow the couple to move forward without concern for crossing boundaries.

Bad^: I know for example.. my sub wants the spanking of her life.... I am free to work her more firmly or for a longer period if I know she has the ability to participate in the process or express her concerns.

Bad^: And Safewords allow for trust building. Much of this is about building trust not being the most macho Dom or Domme in the universe.

Bad^: I tend to start slow and build over sessions... making my subs yearn for more. Others tend to take out the wicked toys and immediately test the subs limits. In either scenario... the ability to invoke a Safeword gives the couple freedom to explore more sincerely rather then grope unknown in subspace and risk losing trust.

Bad^: There is no blank check in Safe Sane and Consensual exploration. You do not submit or demand someone to submit, to "Whatever" Master desires. For if it is without agreement or consideration, it is no different than the spouse who batters a spouse or child.She did marry the bum.. but never bargained for THIS and really has no say. Having no say, no escape.. is being a victim not a participant.

Bad^: Doesn't using a safeword indicate a ....failure?

Bad^: Using Safewords NEVER indicate a submissives failure. Nor does it indicate a Dom has failed. Safewords are the guardrails on a mountain trail. They are the definition of a contract to play or explore. Boundaries. Not all events can be covered in an agreement to explore.

Bad^: D/s explorations can be very dangerous even with the experienced. They can also be harmless but frightening. Intimidation is not the ultimate goal of D/s ( though some use elements of fear or the unknown in their sessions) A responsible submissive is not afraid to call a safeword, a responsible Dom will respect the words and rework or review the session

Bad^: I know... I know. there are many relationships that refuse to use safewords or where "Master" is always right. I submit that there are unspoken pre-agreements however in those that are real life... and those on line. are either co dependent subs willing to do whatever needed for the attention, meeting with insecure Doms apt to test the sub relentlessly as a means to confirm "Dominance"

Bad^: Personally as just one Dom, I have little to "prove". I am confidant in my ability to tune into a subs needs and responses to contact.. I am clear about what my investment is and what "pleases me" I must respect the person who agrees to give me their submission... long before they do this, or I do not get involved.

Bad^: Perhaps that is the bottom line. Mutual Respect. Safe Sane Consensual D/s demands mutual respect from the start.

Bad^: Last week a sub caught me online troubled about a "Dom" who kept hounding her for a collar. Submission is a granting.. a "giving" Some call it a "gift"... I think both roles are "gifts" personally.. but it isn't about Winning, convincing, cajoling or demanding a behavior.

Bad^: Dominants, you do not "create" a sub. You may expose them to new areas, you may train them in the things that please you... but you may not force or convince them to do, That which they find distasteful or objectionable. This isn't Being a responsible Mistress / Master. it is being selfish. A submissive expects more from you than that when they permit you to take them body and soul.

Bad^: submissives: Use your strength to determine what you want and express what you seek. Be selective in whom and how you will give yourself over. Be open to new explorations but also clear about those areas you are not willing to go.

Bad^: When a strong submissive agrees to permit me to Dominate, there is no more powerful chemistry. the submission has so much more value then say.. someone who just will do whatever, just to keep your attention.

Bad^: A submissive who is strong to start with, gives so much more over, then one who is open to anything and not really present to begin with.

Bad^: With that said.. the old adage about kissing a lot of frogs before you find your prince Dom or princess sub ( gender apologies here) applies as well in D/s BDSM. In fact we are even pickier here since there are so many directions and fetishes that make us unique.

Bad^: Consensual: Don't leave home without it.

Bad^: Sane: Emotional well being. this is a tricky one. A woman with a history of abuse and in counseling for years wants to be your sub. She is Consensual and will serve faithfully. but one wonders if this is just echoing pain she seeks to heal from, or her escape into subspace in a familiar arena. What is Your investment as a Dom. As a channel Op? As a friend?

Bad^: A "Dom" seems to work himself into a frenzy at times...demanding more then the sub wishes, crossing lines of contracted behavior then apologizing for his abusive language or deeds.

Bad^: A Dom insists he is the only "Dom" you will ever be permitted to serve, asking you to leave home and family to signify your dedication to his total control. Two young children now will never be able to go to Disneyworld with both Mom and Dad because of a "Dom" who could not let go.

Bad^: So many scenarios that can leave more then physical welts. Again the measure of mutual respect goes a long way here.

Bad^: I have witnessed all of these situations. Are they indicative of healthy D/s explorations or relationships. No. The selfish needs or co dependent contracts people make under the heading of BDSM do NOT meet the test of SSC. Sadistic? Masochistic? perhaps. Responsible Mature behavior? `fraid not. It can be easy to ignore a lot and make up the rules as you go along.

Bad^: Suppose for a minute; a very insecure man(woman) with a lot of anger at women ( men) wished to play out his/her disgust with the other gender. Where better to find willing partners then on a net in a chat rooms about BDSM. New willing young men and women who are without guidance but looking for someone to trust give themselves to totally

Bad^: There are no ends to the types of twists and turns each brings to the channels or chats. Co dependents groping for a partner to play out their "stuff". They are dubious connections that weave through every channel here on the net. It is in fact the scariest part of "cyber" D/s. And the most important reason for folks to understand and apply SAFE SANE CONSENSUAL.

Bad^: You cannot be sure of every "couple" you meet or every "scene" you witness. But you can apply the tenants of Safe Sane Consensual to your own involvements.

Bad^: Why are you interested? Is it an all consuming or counter productive behavior? Is it a casual curiosity? Is it just the name for something you have felt or been for years anyhow?

Bad^: Look inside. Than look carefully around you here and in Real Life. We all explore for different reasons and outcomes. Make sure yours are Sane ones and don't let anyone do you in a manner you wouldn't want your offspring treated. Likewise don't "DO" someone in a manner less then respectful when it is all said and done.

Bad^: Safe: Do you know your partner's medical and health background? How often do you check fingers and toes for circulation when a subject is suspended. What is the proper way to suspend. What color wax is hottest when waxing a sub? What TYPE of candle should be used with the most caution?

Bad^: What type should NEVE R be used? How long can nipple clamps be safely worn? Have you provided for a Safe SIGNAL if your partner is gagged and bound? Do you you check your partner regularly as she or he enters subspace?

Bad^: Hmm we are not all experts it seems. <grin> But Safety is A most important element in D/s play. I often tell a story that demonstrates the supreme level or responsibility that comes with the turf called D/s BDSM

Bad^: Personally I rarely call it "play" Yes at times ( Particularly on line) it is a " role play" More often you will hear me refer to it as "exploration" Since the realm of subspace and each others investments and involvements are "explored"

Bad^: A Dom{me} binds a sub to the table to drip hot wax... the drapes catch fire... and in no time the room is engulfed in flames... there is a fleeting second the Dom can make a break for the door... Or risk it all untying the sub.

Bad^: A "real" Dom has a duty to the sub beyond his/her own needs and pleasures. that sub placed body and soul into the Dom's hands trusting implicitly in his/her ability to never for a second forget the subs welfare or well being.

Bad^: In law it is called a fiduciary duty. To hold a higher interest in the one you are guardian for, then your own self. It is no less important when another human being is on the other end of your rope or crop or particular flavor of D/s.

Bad^: Dom{me}s have a responsibility to train and learn from those who know. Not to experiment just because one is willing. Subs have a right to ask qualifications and experience and to be sure about skills and dedication to Safe Sane Consensual before contracting into any contact.

Bad^: There are local societies across the world dedicated to Safe Sane Consensual D/s experiences. Places to ask and learn and watch and explore. Shamelessly plugging the Whipping Post web site http://members.aol.com/MrBadSir/bad/wppd.html as one excellent resource to find out more. the ChainLinks page has how-to and where-to links

Bad^: One more point before I go to questions from you.... Alcohol and drugs.

Bad^: In the real life parties and gatherings I have attended as well as the personal dungeon sessions I have managed... alcohol and drug use have no place

Bad^: It isn't hard to figure out why. IN the case of a good Dom... he/she needs to be clear of mind and very alert. taking someone to subspace is much deeper then say .. being a laMaze coach. every nuance of breathing.. and response needs to be carefully observed. every action carefully controlled.

Bad^: In my own experience A sub can even forget their safeword and may need to be prompted even as I work him/her. I will have the sub beg for more as an assurance they are still "connected" while in subspace. Or I will ask the sub point blank... do you need your safeword?

Bad^: Such deep connections demand an extremely observant Dom. Impaired judgment from drugs or alcohol.. even cold medications.. are just cause to rule out a D/s exploration.

Bad^: Likewise the sub actually "Seeks" sensations. Use of numbing concoctions, drugs or alcohol... indicate there is a problem with this sub and the behavior about to be attempted. Better to wait for a more appropriate time

Bad^: Alcohol and drug use has NO place in Safe Sane Consensual exploration.

Bad^: I have discussed Safe Sane and Consensual. The possible perils of neglecting any of these elements, the purpose and joy of using safewords and the ultimate responsibilities of both Tops and bottoms in their respective roles in these pursuits.

Bad^: D/s BDSM is a place of strange and fascinating fetishes, people and practices. Often erotic or arousing... but not based as just a way to enhance sex. The power exchanges, trust and mental avenues explored can go much deeper then "kinky sex" would ever hope to.

Bad^: But with the advent of computers and chats and instant cyber connections across the globe with every element society can offer.. Comes the inevitable abuses, misunderstandings, hurts and scars that can cause this lifestyle more damage then good.

Bad^: We should be free to explore our bodies and minds. free to help each other explore new ways to relate. But to do so irresponsibly, or selfishly, is to bring down an entire Lifestyle under the guise of "BDSM Role play"

Bad^: I implore you to embrace the concepts of Safe Sane and Consensual. To require these elements with anyone you would select as a partner. Also to ask those your chat with, or party with r/l to respect your wishes in this regard.

Bad^: Share these with folks you meet and newcomers you might bring into the D/s arena.

Bad^: Safe Sane Consensual It's your body and mind. If you don't love and respect it first.. You get what you allow...

Bad^: The web site again is The Whipping Post / ChainLinks

Bad^: http://members.aol.com/MrBadSir/bad/wppd.html

Bad^: the e-mail is MrBadSir@aol.com

Bad^: I will answer a few questions then we can open the channel up for discussion

fireNdark: REMINDER: If you have a question or comment, simply type (?) or (!)

fireNdark: GA MstrRobt

MstrRobt: I have experienced a society predjuice to b an d ; Could you comment on this aspect

Bad^: b&d is not mainstream. So depending on where you live.. A major metropolis or a tiny burg... you may have trouble findind an accepting sub culture.

MstrRobt: This was at a major hotel chain in the middle of the day

Bad^: I don't need to convince my neighbors I am okay. I merely need to find folks I can share my interest with.

Bad^: I wouldn't go after Minny at DisneyWorld if I had a popular Mouse fetish.

Bad^: But seriously how were you affected by the rjection of your interests?

MstrRobt: We were interrupted by having the police called in

fireNdark: GA Hawkwood

Hawkwood: BDSM has been referrred to as the "last closet"...

Hawkwood: People will admit to most any deviancy before that one.

Bad^: Sorry Hawkwood. Your question?

Hawkwood: Just a comment. :)

fireNdark: GA cinnamon^

cinnamon^: Bad, Sir...for those newer to the scene that may be here tonight...could You spend a few minutes covering safe calls and other safetly measures when one goes form online to a face to face meeting?

Bad^: I can touch on this only briefly and I would not want to leave anything out. Basically in a nutshell... meet with someone you know and trust on line for the first time as if they were the original axmurdered.

Bad^: If they are not... You will relax in time.

cinnamon^ smiles

Bad^: this means DO NOT meet with someone at your home first meeting. Do not go without letting someone know the name and number of the person you are meeting with.

Bad^: Make sure you are clear that soemone expects you to call them during the "meeting" and after it concludeds. Meet in a public place. And don't feel bad meeting with a "friend" who tagged along.

Bad^: More on this is in Newcomers on the web site.

fireNdark: GA ancilla^

ancilla^: just a quick suggestion, look for the hotels with seperate entrances or better yet seperate cabins. It takes more planning, but the setting needs to be planned as well as the scene. May i suggest that the saftey issuse be a whole topic to the ops.

fireNdark: GA Whap

Whap: Bad, what about MR's question? What if you are practicing SSC D/s and others call the police or interrupt you? What should you or can you do in that case?

Bad^: Be clear from the start that you are rehearsing for a New Off broadway play.

Bad^: Just kidding.

Hawkwood: LOL

fireNdark laughs

Whap: Hasn't happened to me YET...but I know it happens.

^kira: LOL

sassysub: lolol

laci^: lol

rockme: lol

Whap: LOLOL

^kira applauds that one

tapestry: HWL!!!!!

Whap: Oo ow o o o ....lala. ;)

MstrRobt: It happened to us Whap and we had our Id checked

Bad^: Be respectful of the authroities.. There can be any myriad of laws you have violated and for the record ignorance of the law is not innocence.

panthera laughs

tapestry: Look for hotels with poored cement floors and walls?

Brigitte^ chuckles

fireNdark: GA sassysub

Whap: Don't admit to anything.

Bad^: If the authorities understand there is no rape or unwarranted violence ouccuring they may ask you to behave or they may hassle you downtown. Beligerence doesn't play well here. Find out specifically what charges you are facing.

Whap: Call a lawyer and claim conspiracy or discrimination, eh?

Bad^: But be compliant and apologeitc if youre persuit of "

MstrRobt: For the channel info ; we were not arrested; and the police left afterwards

^kira: glad to hear that MR

sassysub: ok, having done everything you can possibly do concerning safety, agreeing on the terms of the session, etc...a newcomer, such as myself, having never experienced bdsm will be extremely nervous, worried sick that he/she will disappoint the Top....even tho the Top is fully aware of the subs position...what can you say to the newcomer to help him/her relax...not worry so much?

sassysub: now...let me read that to see if i made sense

sassysub grins

Bad^: No. this is never usalyy more then a disturbing the peace call. And if I were sleeping next door I might have a valid complaint. Keep that in mind.

Bad^: Trust your Top.. or don't play. You have to get the sense they understand your fears.

sassysub: trust isn't always a factor in being nervous, Sir

Bad^: A good top might even begin with relaxing exercises for you.

Bad^: And you need to learn to work relaxing techniques internally too. Deep breathing... as well as good communication helps with those anticipatory feelings.

Bad^: Some of that isn't really Bad^ sassy. It is like stage fright before you go "On" it can be refocused into the experience.

sassysub smiles..thank-you Sir

fireNdark: GA DeOracle

DeOracle: what are our options as friends should we find one of our friends involved in a realtionship that appears to be more abusive then D/s oriented...do we HAVE any options as to how to bring that up to them

Bad^: Well if it is abusive it is a busive. More or less means nothing. Yes. Sometimes a Person with good Top skills doesn't understand the position of the sub or the rules of the game. Open discussion is good.

Bad^: A Safeword ends all play. then the real work begins. Reviewing what worked and what didn't.

Bad^: Are you asking if you know an abused sub or an abusive Dom?

DeOracle: I know a couple

DeOracle: in an abusive relatioship

Bad^: Well that is a tough one. If the couple thinks they are doing what they want. they may be co-dependant. The hotel complaint is an easier one to make stick.

Bad^: If however She is a victim ( in some cases even a HE can be a victim)

Bad^: You should check the local laws and support groups then find a way to slip information to the victim and assure them they have an alternatives.

Bad^: I once met a woman who was waking to a gun pressed to her temple.

Bad^: I got her outta there.

Bad^: She is my wife. : )

Whap: LOL

laci^: :)

MstrRobt: Good for you Bad

fireNdark: :)

DeOracle: if i took this route, i would have multiple wives - but I am not a mormon

Whap: Bad: Guess the idiot didn't know what he had, eh? :)

_Joe_: you'd also have multiple problems

Bad^: Somewhere between do nothing and change relgions Oracle. You have to get information and decide how much a hero you want to be.

^kira: one last question then we can open it up for discussion :)

^kira: GA laci :)

Bad^: No lie Whap we have been happy 17 years now.

laci^: how difficult is it, Bad, Sir..to live the BDSM lifestyle..with children in the house? How do you incorporate your sexual preferences into everyday life..as responsible parents

ProvokeMe: good question

Bad^: A good masterlock on the toys.

Whap: And an electrified crib. ;)

Bad^: I actually know my 10 year old will eventually find my Bad^ side on the web or the computer here... I will tell her the truth as best I can.

Bad^: I play as my family commitments permit. Since my wife is vanilla I tend to got o play parties or in one case buiilt a dungeon at my subs home.

laci^: thank you, Sir

Bad^: If you have an interest you will find a way. Again local groups can make all the difference.

^kira: Bad, Sir, on last question from tulips please?

^kira: GA tulip

Bad^: The web site has many listings or you can e mail me for more http://members.aol.com/MrBadSir/bad/wppd.home.html

Bad^: MrBadSir@aol.com

tulip{LO}: Was wondering if you can tell me ways of being respectful online? Because I've only been involved in D/s for a short time and want to know these things so I sound more like a sub. And anything else you can add for me...

Whap: Dang tulips...I could have answered that for you. ;)

Whap: *giggle*

Bad^: Never type a line without the word Sir in it. lol Use the word "respectful" often. Be humble and apologetic. and

Bad^: Find another sub you can vent your true feelings with on the side <wink>

ancilla^: lol

tapestry: LOL

panthera: LOL

Brigitte^ laughs

cinnamon^: LOL

tapestry: suggests being yourself

peachykn^: <smirk>

^fantasy: lol

Bad^: I know tulip. NOT a good suggestion! lol

cinnamon^ loves seeing how many "Sir"s she can fit into one sentence...it's even more fun when SirSirpen comes in

ladyOM nods....

sassysub: lolol cinn

^kira chuckles

Bad^: Just kidding tulip you have grown a lot in a short time.

panthera: you are so bad cinn LOL

SheDragon: lol cinnamon

Brigitte^: so that's the secret..hmm

tulip{LO}: Thank you Sir, but I don't think I have.

Bad^: I'd like to thank you all for coming and listening and sharing. I am always bouncing around the net. So e mail me or visit with me on channel any time. I may not have the answer but I never mind lookin with you for it.

laci^: thank you, Bad, Sir..this was very interesting..and very well done

laci^ applauds

SheDragon: thank you Bad, have a great night

MstrRobt: Thank you Bad for taking the time to speak with us all

Shubuku: she certainly is

panthera: thanks Bad Sir

Bad^: So let;s open this up for general diuscussion now.

ancilla^ stands and claps

peachykn^: Mr. Bad Sir, does it concern you that when your daughter does, as you sya she will no doubt eventually find this side of you, does it concern you that she will what to venture into this realm? or more frankly SIr, is it a healthy role model to be?

^kira: Thank You, Bad, Sir for coming...we'd like to take this to open discussion now. Thanks everyone for coming.

sara: Thank you Sir

TheKttN: tulip, a hint is, never do anything that will make your Dominant look bad. You don't have to worry about anyone else, but always show your respect for him.

^fantasy applauds

rockme applauds ..... Well done Sir... *warm smile*

TheKttN: Thank you very much Bad^ Sir :) This has been an excellent discussion.

Bad^: kira since abuse was a theme in our marriage ( My spouses former experience and my work in the community) I began teaching my kids a healthy respect for their body and spaces...

SheDragon: sure Kttn take away all the fun ;)

tulip{LO}: for her TheKttN and thank you

Whap: tulips: In other words...follow in Whap's steps. <g>

Brigitte^ applauds...Thank you, Bad, excellent talk!

MastrMars nods in agreement, " Thanks Bad, now that wasn't all that bad was it"

^kira: Yes it was....all Bad^

^kira: ;)

tulip{LO} looks at Whap

ldya applauds

TheKttN: victoria jump right in with your question hon, the floor is open.

Bad^: sorry that was peachy's question.... If my daughter is curious I will not stop her but I will ask her to be responsible. It is more important that I have dialoug woith my child then that I control or influence them too much.

SheDragon: lol Whap

^victoria: well, excuse my English for first

Beowulf` thanks Bad

`eliza curtsies to the masters an mistress and quickly finds a sit

Bad^: I am listening victoria

peachykn^: thank you Sir

^victoria: but I wanted to discuss, if a GOOD sub has to serve ALL doms who are coming into the channel. (because often doms are surprised, when I tell them no, I ask me why then I`m on this channel)

Bad^: You choose who you submit to. Otherwise it is not a personal yielding.

^victoria: sorry, THEY aske me, why then I`m here

tulip{LO}: I have a question?

^victoria: lol.. I`m typing badly at this hour

Brigitte^ smiles at eliza

cinnamon^: victoria...a submissive chooses who she submits to and serves...being submissive doesn't mean waitress or dropping to your knees to anyone with a capped nick!

Bad^: tell them you are learning.. and hope they are too!.

laci^: I find alot of Dom-wannabe's hang around submission ty[e channels..and then message you privately and demand that you "serve" them..any true Dom would never behave in such a way

ancilla^: AMEN!

tulip{LO}: Since there are like a lot of people in here that know me can I say something?

^victoria: lol... I know that, but wanted to tell it to all doms here too!

Bad^: It does attrack a lot of kids and abusives.no lie.

panthera: say it again laci and cinn!

cinnamon^: victoria...the gift of your submission is a precious gift...and no disrespect meant to anyone...but not all are worthy of that gift

Bad^: Sure tulip.

ProvokeMe: All Dom;s do not feel that way victoria... trust me

tulip{LO}: thank you Bad Sir

`eliza listens and learns

tulip{LO}: i don't want to be known as trouble maker all the time and I'm tired of fighting with everyone and I was wondering if I could make a public apology right here, cause I'm always getting banned

^victoria: most doms here believe, they come in and are served !

peachykn^ nods in agreement to laci^

Brigitte^: That's true, laci

cinnamon^: no victoria...those with no clue do that

tulip{LO}: or if anyone has any suggestions for me???

ProvokeMe: victoria... most BAD Doms do

RReid: do we have anything to say about Doms and the positives of Domhood, or is this the Dom-wannabe discussion hour?

Bad^: tulip if you are seriousabout changing your online personna I would be glad to help. I tend to get the old Ban but then I AM Bad^! lol

TOtalDom: tulips Just be nice and polite

^victoria: hm.. then I only meet those :(

panthera never ever makes trouble...nor does she ever , never speak her mind *sweet, innocent smile*

^kira winks at Bad^

tulip{LO}: Bad Sir i need lots of help

Bad^: Doms have the ultimate responsibility RR. There is nothing better then a responsible and skilled Dom. <feel better?>

panthera bats her innocent lashes just for effect

laci^: but men who behave in such a way are not real Doms..they are horny net geek types who prey on women..and hope that a submissive is either too stupid, too timid, or "not allowed" to refuse their request for net sex

tulip{LO}: TD Sir, I am nice most of the time but people dont know when i am joking or being sarcastic

Brigitte^: I would not ask a submissive to serve me, other than my own, that seems awfully arrogant to me.

Whap: tulips: Be sure your Dom works with REAL implements...that works for me. ;)

Bad^: Have your LO contact me. We might work with you togehter.

TheKttN: no one is bashing Doms. a lot of submissives have questions pretaining to online SSC.

Beowulf` agrees with Brigitte, but i appreciate an offer

RReid: works for me, TheKttN

tulip{LO}: Bad she just started training me there is a lot I would like to learn

Brigitte^: yes, laci, well said

tulip{LO}: another problem is people don't think I want to learn, but I do and I am trying

ProvokeMe: hiya kitN

Bad^: Then pay attention tulip. You are fesity but there are many who are. You can get fine attention just being good. Or you can draw fire for being Bad^! lol

SheDragon: Hi ProvokeMe, want some provocation tonight?

Whap: Bad: *moan* ;)

panthera: LOL

tulip{LO} smiles

ProvokeMe is always looking for provocation.... from the right sources... : )

Whap: Bad: That was Bad^

panthera tends to draw fire

tulip{LO}: yeah but Bad Sir this happens where ever I go

ancilla^: !@#$%^&*() computer

Bad^: The real issue tulip is how you get attention and what kind.

RReid: wb, ancilla

SheDragon: inspire me PM ;)

ancilla^: thank you Sir

Whap: <--- A regular bullet magnet. Well...and sassysub, and cyberfish...and...

tulip{LO}: Bad Sir lets put it this way I tend to be rude, obnoxcious and disrespectful

SheDragon: not you Whap you are just darling :)

Bad^: Any other SSC remarks or questions?

ancilla^: yuck

laci^ chuckles...speaking of seeking attention

Whap: SD: I know...but I was TRYING to make tulips feel better dear. ;)

panthera: LOL , laci

SheDragon: oh OK Whap, did it work?

ancilla^: ^5

Whap: SD: *shrug*

tulip{LO}: cause I don't like people disliking me either cause I can be good most of the time and I don't know how to get rid of this rep that I have

tulip{LO}: Whap I never seen you before?

SheDragon: what rep tulip?

Bad^: Well let;s get back to our respective channels then we are over due for waterguns and pie fights...

laci^: may I suggest..time, appropriate behavior, maturity and thoughtfulness, tulip?

panthera: tulip...trust me...the ones that get to know you will know how you really are.

Whap: Well tulip...I've seen you before...go figure.

laci^: Bad..nice meeting you..and thanks

tulip{LO}: SheDragon about me being rude, obnoxiicous and disrespectful

tulip{LO}: Whap oh never seen you

TheKttN: listen tulips. your slate is totally whiped clean on #submission. if you have questions you can ask kira, flower or i, okay?

sara: thanks again Bad Sir, it was really interesting

tulip{LO}: I mean ask a lot of people here they will tell ya

panthera: and you know, tulip, where you mess up and what you need to change.

ancilla^: heading for bed

SheDragon: sounds good to me tulip

SheDragon: what is it you want to change?

laci^: night all

ariel^: i want my slate whipped clean too :-)

ancilla^ kisses Bad^ thank you Sir see you soon

Bad^: thank you sara.

MastrMars: speaking of reps, Master Mars wants everyone to know that everything you've ever heard about is TRUE.....and if you haven't heard anything...make some stuff up :)

SheDragon: night those who are nighting

tulip{LO}: TheKttn good about time I've been trying really hard

ldy`mmr: blows a kiss to Bad, Sir..................

Whap wants her slate wiped clean too. :)

ariel^: oh. wiped. :-(

SheDragon: MastrMars I heard you were a real sweetheart with a wicked sense of humour

Whap: ariel: LOL I saw that. ;)

TheKttN: your's would have to be sand blasted Whap.

tulip{LO}: TheKttn and I was never gonna do what I told flower

ariel^ winks at Whap

Bad^: Yum they didn't tell me about all the kisses! I'll come back any time!

ProvokeMe: good job of making stuff up SheDragon.... LOOLOLOLOL

Whap: TheKttN: Again? :\

SheDragon: LOL PM

MastrMars nods to SD

SheDragon: come on Whap you liked the sand last time

ProvokeMe: sorry... couldn;t help no using that straight line;...

ProvokeMe: no = not

sassysub smiles....thank-you Bad for the discussion, Sir...i'm impressed, you seem to have put a lot into it...that's appreciated, possibly more than you realize

SheDragon winks to Sir MM

^kira: Bad, Sir, thank You for coming, it was a wonderful presentation.

sassysub waves g'nite :) hugs/kisses to all of ya ;)

^kira: please excuse me :)

tulip{LO}: so I would appreciate it if people didnt call me a troulbe maker anymore and ban me anymore

SheDragon: night sassy

TheKttN: well tulip, like i said if you have questions ask one of us. being a submissive is not easy:)

Alden: hi all

Bad^: Spread the word Safe Sane Consensual

Whap: SD: No I didn't...it got into my underwear and stayed there for weeks. *pout*

Bad^ pulls down a leather whip snapping it several times just to relieve tension. Bad smiles and places it gently back in its hooks.

ProvokeMe: thats three words to spread

sassysub: hiya SheDragon :)) g'nite

SheDragon: night Bad, thanks for your time

tulip{LO}: The Kttn thank you i know its not

MastrMars goes and hugssssssssssssssss tulip.........feel better now??

peachykn^: gnight, thank you Bad^ Sir

tulip{LO}: MastrMars Sir yes I do, just wish some other people were here to hear that

mistymoon wonders if someone could ping her

Whap: It ain't easy bein' cheesy. Oooops....wrong sound byte.

Brigitte^: 2 secs mistymoon :)

SheDragon: Whap come over and get into the pool.

DeOracle: [mistymoon PING reply]: 6 seconds

MindFul1: tulip: I swear on my oath of honor that I will *never* call you a trouble maker and I will *never* ban you from any channel! There! That's a start. Anyone else want to make the pledge? <s>

mistymoon: Thankyou DeOracle, Sir

DeOracle: you're welcome

MastrMars: well this log gets posted on the site, so a lot of people will see it

SheDragon: Hi MindFul1 Didnt notice you :)

tulip{LO}: thank you MindFul

MindFul1: hi, She

MastrMars takes the bible from Mindful1 and says " Praise the Lord"

tulip{LO}: so who dont i know in here I see some new faces

SheDragon: Im an op nowhere tulip but I will watch for you :)

MastrMars won't ban tulip either, unless she deserves it

tulip{LO}: SheDragon okay I'm here like 24/7

SheDragon: I really dont understand why no one thinks I would make a great op....

tulip{LO}: thanks MastrMars Sir

tulip{LO}: yeah SheDragon I want to know the same thing :)

tulip{LO}: if I talk too much just tell me to shut up cause i tend to have a big mouth

Whap: tulip: Shut up.

Whap: tulip: Just kidding :)

MastrMars: that could be a plus for a sub tulip

Alden: lol

tulip{LO} laughs at MM

TheKttN: tulip, you can really learn by talking to other submissives, so don't be afraid to ask.

SheDragon: awww thanks Whap.

SheDragon: dont shut up tulip come into #submission late at night and wake them all up

SheDragon gives Whap the evil eye

MastrMars walks over to a snare drum and wait to do a "Rim Shot" for the next punch line

Log closed here.