Safewords and Fisting
Speaker: slavetoy
April 1997

<slavetoy> thank you Sump

<slavetoy> big breathe in here we go

<slavetoy> Please be aware in my sincere effort not to offend anyone...any language i use in this lecture is ment to relate to all genders submissive/slave/bottom and all genders Dom/Domme/Master/Mistress/Top. i respect all persons rights and desires to be included as it relates to this subject, and my intention is not to offend anyone by exclussion or otherwise. i thank you all for your attention and respect in listening to my point of view...

<slavetoy> i am glad to see you all here, let me introduce myself. My name is shari, and i have enjoyed this lifestyle (real life) for 10 years. i gained interest in (the lifestyle) at age 28 and have been told i am a late bloomer. To that statement i respond...We all develop interest at different stages of life.

<slavetoy> it has been my experience both real life and online are seen as not acceptable (deviant) or as if i have no self-esteem or self confidence. This is simply not true ...i consider myself a very intelligent confident cautious woman...the term submissive is not synonymous with neither being stupid nor lacking in confidence. i learned long ago to trust my gut feelings...when my gut feeling is active it is NEVER wrong.

<slavetoy> this leads me to my topic "Fisting and Safewords" my plan is to tackle each subject separately...i think it is necessary to begin with safewords first. i say this because i believe before anything else occurs between any Dom/ Domme and sub...any Top or bottom or any Master/Mistress and slave...those two partners must discuss the safety issues for both partners...my rule and limit is no play or scene shalll occur until these issues are r

<slavetoy> You both must agree especially at a first meeting...Please notice i specifically state the safety of both partners. Both partners must agree on the safeword (s). First: in my humble opinion the trust between two consenting adults must be developed in their own time slowly. i personally Never consent to play online or in person without that agreement. This is always made clear before anything else happen...you may feel my emphasis is ver

<slavetoy> But... i have personally experienced that mistake. i have also heard from others both male and female...both Dom and sub... Master/Mistress and slave who has survived dangerous situations. The lack of careful safety is a mistake we all never want to make...the mistake can result in devistating results. Let me explain....I was once in a scene with a Master i served real life and i could not remeber my safeword...he chose it...i was scared

<slavetoy> i learned how lucky i was to have him as my Master and also learned to never choose a difficult safeword to remember. A positive story yes...but i have had negative results too... i sincerely hope i have made many of you aware of a way to protect yourselves in the future ...i think this is a good time to open myself to your questions...i do ask you all to be patient i sometimes type slowly but i will respond as quickly as i can.

Action: prudence raises her hand

<slavetoy> i hope this all has made some sense to you...i tried to express myself as i felt necessary

<Sumptuous> prudence GA

<prudence> well..i just wanted to have some examples of what sorts of words might be most acceptable as safewords..

<slavetoy> well prudence in the literature i have seen it uses words like red for stop, yellow for slow down ease up and green for go

<trusting> I agree: Perhaps the most common set is the traffic light analogy: green, yellow and red

<prudence> i have had no successful experience in this area so far..

<slavetoy> in my experience i have choosen words i feel safe with and my Master excepts

<slavetoy> welll what word gives you a safe feeling start there...and then you can work on agreeing with your Master or Dom?

<slavetoy> does that help prudence ?

<prudence> thank you.

<Sumptuous> slavetoy i wanted ot make a comment on my safeword, it is also good to use a word that does not come up often in conversation...like "tuna" i heard often

<slavetoy> ohh yes i agree Sump great idea...yes you always want to use a word not commonly used in a scene

<Hawkwood> I would echo Sumptuous' comment. Choose a word that is unlikely to come up by accident.

<prudence> is there any good way to assure oneself that she won't forget the safeword..

<slavetoy> well prudence as i said it has happened to me before...so i chose my next safeword carfully

slavetoy> if you are in a situation you want to s top you must remember that word so give it alot of thought

<prudence> thank you.

<oreoh> I have forgotten my safeword in a scene before... and it bothered me a lot afterwards.. even using the simple red/yellow.. luckily, my partener listened to my words.. and understood the change in my tone of voice..

<oreoh> but I'd appreciate suggestions for remembering a safeword.. if anyone has them?

<flower^> practice practice practice

<Sumptuous> oreoh useing the same one often and if tied up useing something like a scarf ini your hand or soemthing you can drop if you are gagged works well also.

<slavetoy> i agree oreoh the same thing happened to me i was scared too but if you and your Dom or Domme are very important

<slavetoy> you and your Dom or Domme must have a goiod relationship to achieve that...

<prudence> thank you, all.

<slavetoy> your welcome prudence

<Bad^> Just wanted to comment that I have seen a safeword get lost and or forgotten that is why it is extremely important for people to approach the "edges" slowly so the rapport can be built. A good Dom can often tell the limit without a word.

marissa agrees with that one

<slavetoy> as a submissive Bad i agree but for my safety i still desire to have that understanding that Masters agrees to resopect that safeword

<slavetoy> just a issue i protect as a sub...if a Dom has a strong feeling about himself he can deal with that need

<doona{GD}> my Master tells me he can 'read' me and he has always been able to, to know exactly when to stop, knowing my tone of voice, and he knows our limits

<doona{GD}> we have never used a safe word

<slavetoy> that is fantastic doona but i personally have experienced the opposite and was left scared and confussed so i chooose to protect myself in this way

<slavetoy> expecoially when the relatiosnhip is new

<doona{GD}> i can understand a new realtionship , of course

<slavetoy> and the rappor is not in place yet

<doona{GD}> but one where youhave know eachother a while

<slavetoy> thank you doona

<doona{GD}> :)

<slavetoy> ohhh i agree

<prudence> i found myself in a situation in a new and developing relationship once in which the basic formation was D/s...but had not been formally presented, and in the resulting scene..i was brutalized in a way that shook me up quite badly..it was virtual, but directly mirrored a very bad experience i had had in real life..there was no identification of parameters..and when i spoke of them, for myself..and directly said that i did not want a certain topic or activity approached..he went directly for it.

<slavetoy> prudence, that is exactly why i have decided upon this topic

<slavetoy> prudence that is when you say i am no longer consenual and you leave

<slavetoy> as i stated earlieri Never agree to scene with anyone until i hear an agreement on the safeword and the limits if my Master deviates at all i say good bye

<slavetoy> the understading must be there or how can you develop a trust

<prudence> i found myself very..traumatized for some weeks.

<slavetoy> safety first

<slavetoy> you hav learned a valuable lesson

<prudence> that is all. it is important for me to understand how safewords can be established. permanently.

<slavetoy> i am sorry for your trauma but learn from it dear

<prudence> thank you, slavetoy..i was very inexperienced at the time.

<slavetoy> you as a sub must place that on the table at the beginning

<prudence> i did finally leave..but not until the damage had been done.

<slavetoy> i have been in rl situations and was told the safeword and limits were off and i said good bye i had a friend near by to resque me

<slavetoy> how have you changed since that occured ? have you changed ?

<oreoh> I have found that there are so called "doms" out there, who ask your limits.. and when they find out what they are, insist on pushing them (for example, not scat or waterplay) ...and I agree with you, slavetoy, the only way to handle that type of "dom" is to say it's no longer consensual.. and leave.. in a situation like that, it's obvious there is no respect for the sub, or the sub's gift of submission

<slavetoy> exactly oreoh

<Sumptuous> oreoh explain "scat" please?

<slavetoy> feces ?

<oreoh> umm.. play in feces, yes

<prudence> i have experienced a great deal of mistrust toward all men..as a result of several experiences..it has been very hard to allow myself to experience growth of new relationships.

<TeknoMage> men can be like that prudence:)

<Bad^> Thanks. It is important to note that submission means to "yield" to another. that means a decison to allow another control. that isn't carte blance for a Top to do anything. Each involvment is a contract. No matter how old or new the relationship it should be discussed prior to engagement

<slavetoy> thank you Bad Sir that is so true ...many Doms and Dommes i have seen online and real life have taken my nick as carte blance and have to defend myself as a result...i have learned to not allow it

<slavetoy> it is all dependant on the strength and selfconfidence of myself to have my rights respected

<Bad^> It would be like getting into someone's car and not agreeing on a final destination.

<slavetoy> nod

<SudWind> The time for discovering that someone doesnt respect safewords and isnt a proper partner is prior to even beginning a scene. For those that engage in asual senes there is always the risk of being tricked, but if 2 partners spend the time getting to know each other there is much less likelihood of a betrayal of trust that leads to a mistrust of anyone. Also I feel that if a submissive runs into one that abuses the consensual nature required in a se

<slavetoy> SudWind sir are you done ?

<SudWind> yes

<slavetoy> well i do agree Sir but the sub or Dom that is learning needs some guidance

<slavetoy> but i do understand your point ga

<prudence> as an aside, i guess, i would have to say that i have had my limits trampled so often in real life situations, that i have a very hard time establishing limitations..rather as a result of expecting to be mistreated. i would welcome any advice in how i should go about developing a set of limitations for myself, with less regard to acceptance by my Top.

<slavetoy> Prudence i would sit down alone and map out what your limits are take your time...write and rewrite

<prudence> and in this way, develop a standard for myself in what i expect in a Top.

<slavetoy> so you have them for future use. it gives you a stable format to follow none the less

<prudence> thank you. i'm finished.

<slavetoy> you must define your own dear...he or she nedds to know their subs limits then they can understand there own

<SudWind> slavetoy the submissive or dominant learning should never approach limits in the beginning....and after a scene, the discussion that takes place allows the partners to discern where they both need to go in future scenes......the early scenes do NOT have to have all the bells and whistles, building as you go is safer and leaves room for future experiences with less possibility of being trampled...... prudence, before meeting anyone to scene, I require that they list health considerations, limits, experience, and desires and fantasies in writing and those are discssed

prudence listens

<slavetoy> SudWind i agree partially...upon my first real life meeting i met with a very experienced Dom he and i did talk about the limits i have and he has i would have been to fearful otherwise to meet him

<prudence> i just want to thank you all for your comments and suggestions..i have much to think about and discuss with my Master..and i am anxious now to hear more about the second topic. thank you.

<slavetoy> i am glad you are here thank you prudence

<slavetoy> ga i think this is a great time to work on the other part of the lecture

<Sumptuous> yes slavetoy please go on..:) thankyou

<slavetoy> please allow me to rerun the statement

<slavetoy> Please be aware in my sincere effort not to offend anyone...any language i use in this lecture is ment to relate to all genders submissive/slave/bottom and all genders Dom/Domme/Master/Mistress/Top. i respect all persons rights and desires to be included as it relates to this subject, and my intention is not to offend anyone by exclussion or otherwise. i thank you all for your attention and respect in listening to my point of view...thi

<slavetoy> Now lets begin with the topic of Fisting...and please remember the discussion we just had on Safewords...i will preface this by saying i personally have experienced 2 separate safe fisting scenes with two different Masters. So i do speak from real life experiences...btw they were both positive experiences : ) ) ) i must admitt that divulging this to you all makes me feel kinda exposed...this means you will never again believe i am the i

<slavetoy> Fisting in it self sounds deviant even to me and i have participated...i will say it did reqiire alot of trust and care from my Master...i think i saw it as a punishment i could not survive...it was my first time experiencing it...but i knew my Master cared about me...i trusted him...i knew he planed on it he prepared my body to handle it in a proper manner...i knew why i was recieving the fisting as a punishment...and my Master and i talked

<slavetoy> Yes i knew that was the day i was possibly going to be fisted...i knew before he arrived i was going to be punished i was just unsure if thatr day was going to be a fisting day...when he arrived here he looked like i was going to be punished, so i was prepared. I always felt very safe with my Master. My Master and i had a deep trust and understanding with my safeword. i remember feeling very nervous...and excited.

<slavetoy> This is a direct Quote from the book a"Diffrent Loving" i felt this was very important to our conversation "Participants say that fisting is spiritual, sensuously profound,and even mystical because, as one D&Ser put it, "It's like reaching inside and grabbing someon's soul"

<slavetoy> Fisting has numurous psychological components: It may convey a sense of violation, erotic humiliation or helplessness. The fist is, symbolically and literally, a power symbol whose introduction into a body cavity has an enormous emotional impact and corollary sexual charge.

<slavetoy> this is the end of my prepared lecture

<slavetoy> i have some things i want to share before we open

<slavetoy> as the quote states...it is a spiritual i agree just like many scenes we have experienced as Subs

<slavetoy> i have had that wonderful feeling of pleasure and slight pain

<slavetoy> i knew i was safe with the Master i was with...

<slavetoy> i have decided to share that experience with you all

<slavetoy> my Master at the time was a very caring man

<slavetoy> he and i had discussed this action before and he wanted me to experience it with him

<slavetoy> i agreeded

<slavetoy> so as always we discussed what would happen

<slavetoy> he was a man with very large hands and that scared me

<slavetoy> but in the back of my mind was the fact women have baby;s every day from that same orifice

<slavetoy> babies are larger than my Masters fist so the physical aspect was possibel

<slavetoy> sorry bout the spelling

<slavetoy> ok

<slavetoy> so he arrived and he was anxious as i was

<slavetoy> he prepared me

<slavetoy> he used latex gloves, and lube

<slavetoy> as we discussed

<slavetoy> i at the time had a very busy phone...and i was so worried it would ring...that was all i needed

<slavetoy> anyway he he put me in position and told me to try to relax as much as possible

<slavetoy> he massaged my back

<slavetoy> he was a loving Master by the way grinnnnn

<slavetoy> he tied me in the position i stayed in a while so he knew i was comfortable just my legs

<slavetoy> i was on my bed and facing that same phone i was worried would ring

<slavetoy> he talked to me the whole time

<slavetoy> the pet names a Master calls his sub that kinda thing

<slavetoy> after he relaxed me more in stimulation he applied the lube so i was well lubricated

<slavetoy> remember his hands are large

<slavetoy> he told me to close my eyes

<slavetoy> and he slowly worked his fingers in

<slavetoy> blushhhh

<slavetoy> i feel so exposed here gulp

<slavetoy> anyway

<slavetoy> ok

<slavetoy> deep breath

<slavetoy> he continues to insert more and i moan and try to relax

<slavetoy> now he wants me to be quite so he spanks me everytime i say anything

<slavetoy> well that has its own effect

<slavetoy> i keep trying to ask how many fingers are in and he spanks me when i do

<slavetoy> that was frustrating grinnnn

<slavetoy> so i behave and suddenly the damn phone rings he spanks me and orders me to answer it

<slavetoy> o groan and he keeps stroking and adding

<slavetoy> i am maoning alot at this point and he spanks me harder

<slavetoy> i answer the phone

<slavetoy> it is a very good friend of mine male

<slavetoy> we have played alot together

<slavetoy> he lives out of state and we play on the phone alot

<slavetoy> blushhhhh

<slavetoy> he yells in to the phone are you ok shari

<slavetoy> i look back are master and i tell him what the guy said

<slavetoy> he spanks again and tell me to tell me how i am

<slavetoy> so i do

<slavetoy> so i did

<slavetoy> Charlie went wild he loved it at that point Master had his whole fist in

<slavetoy> he stroked it harder as i talked on the phone

<slavetoy> i was breathless Charlie said i sounded busy he would call back later

<slavetoy> Master spanked me and said hang up

<slavetoy> so i did

<slavetoy> blushhhhhhhhhh

<slavetoy> i was getting exhausted...Master kept opening and closing his hand and saying open close, open close

<slavetoy> i felt a high from that experience for weeks it seemed like

<slavetoy> i hope this has helped anyone who wanted to learn from my experience

<slavetoy> we are open in channel for question if you have any

<slavetoy> use the same queue sytem as earlier

<Sumptuous> ooh okay thanks

<Sumptuous> slavetoy what where his hand movements like exactly did they build up to open and closing? did it hurt did his hands cramp? how long did it last?

<Sumptuous> i mean did it hurt you? or him?

<slavetoy> well first i am a small frame woman and it hurt like a pressure when his hand was fully inside

<slavetoy> he bagan with fingers and slowly worked them in adding one at a time he told me later

<slavetoy> his had width was like one and a half of mine so it was tight fit

<slavetoy> he was inside me up to his mid forearm

<Sumptuous> did it put it in closed into a fist or did he make the fist inside?

<slavetoy> the length of time i have no idea

<Sumptuous> did you have an orgasm i hear people sometimes have hand cramps if the women orgasms

<slavetoy> he put the fist together when inside totally

<slavetoy> it went like this fingers, knuckles, hand and wrist then fist made and the rest of forearm went in

<Sumptuous> wow slavetoy thanks so much for shareing this with us it is so fasinateing this topic, both of them.

<slavetoy> he never told me that or complained

<slavetoy> ohh i am glad to help

<slavetoy> and besides i love reliving it

<slavetoy> fond memory ga

<lilhelfyr> GA oreoh

<oreoh> I've tried fisting before... unsuccessfully (tho we used lube, we didn't use gloves) and it left me sore for days.. just curious...how long were you sore? And.. were you on your hands and knees? I wasn't real clear on your position

<slavetoy> ohh sorry yes i was on my hannds and knees arched back...legs spread arched back helped

<slavetoy> i was sore for several days

<slavetoy> i was kinda scared that i would be ok

<oreoh> do you think that position is the best?

<slavetoy> well it worked for us

<slavetoy> i have a very small body fram...Master was a huge man body size wise i am 5'4 he is 6'2

oreoh nods.. thank you for sharing, slavetoy :)

<lilhelfyr> QUEUE moghedien

<slavetoy> your welcome

<lilhelfyr> GA moghedien

<oreoh> oh.. hubby says that when he was trying to fist me, his thumb got a lil cramped from being squeezed over

<moghedien> so, in spite of the soreness, it was an experience that you would care to repeat?

<slavetoy> i personally would have to really trust the person but yes i would if the circustanaces were right

<slavetoy> i have something to say i hope the people that left were not offended by this

<slavetoy> i never want to offend anyone

<slavetoy> i think i have left everybody speechless

<slavetoy> or bored ?

<lilhelfyr> does anyone have any more questions for slavetoy if not we will open up for discussion

<oreoh> definitely not bored :) but a lot to think about

<lilhelfyr> GA shedevyl

<shedevyl> You never mentioned if you had an orgasm :)) And how was that different if you did?

<slavetoy> well she yes i did have several actually

<slavetoy> diffrent yes the tension brought about with the size

<slavetoy> it is hard to describe

<slavetoy> but a great feeling too

<slavetoy> if that makes sense

<slavetoy> ga

<shedevyl> More intense?

<slavetoy> yes but...the size made it feel different

<LordWODEN> Just a point of curiosity, slavetoy . . . with all the carful preparation that went into this fisting, did your Master introduce an enema prior to beginning??

<slavetoy> nooo Lw he did not i am glad he didn;t think of it though....blushhhh

<LordWODEN> I would think that may allow a bit more comfort in the area of the vagina by allowing more room for unrestrcied expansion.

<LordWODEN> unrestricted, even . . .

<slavetoy> you have a point Sir i just never thought of it

<LordWODEN> As would a light meal.

<slavetoy> wow

<slavetoy> good point

<slavetoy> i appreciate the insightful questions

LordWODEN knows that enemas are strongly recommended for those who fist on the opposite side . . .

<shedevyl> lol

<Sumptuous> LOL

<slavetoy> i never honestly heard that

<LordWODEN> True story, slavetoy.

<slavetoy> enemas scare me

<lilhelfyr> GA prudence

<prudence> i would like to thank slavetoy for sharing with us all so openly..though, i would lke to suggest that the enema experience for anal fisting is more recommended for hygeinic and non-voiding purposes.

<prudence> and that enemas..or douches in the vaginal area could actually reduce the lubricating capacities of the tisuues..and would therefore not be as recommended.

<prudence> thank you, all.

<slavetoy> i agree prudence

<slavetoy> thank you

<TeknoMage> it was a interesting story slavetoy

<TeknoMage> glad to have heard it:)

<slavetoy> ohh thank you TeknoMage Sir i am glad you were here

<moghedien> wonderful talk slavetoy! much appreciated and enjoyed.

<Sumptuous> slavetoy you were wonderful!!! thankyou so much for shareing...:)

<shedevyl> I think He was referring making the bowels empty FOR the vaginal fisting, so as to avoid pressing into a full lower colon through the vaginal wall.

<slavetoy> i thank upi all for listening

<oreoh> thank you for sharing, slavetoy.. I learned a great deal :)

<slavetoy> i was so scared i messed up thank you all

<moghedien> i also wanted to apologize for my rude interruptions at the beginning and let ya know it wasn't really me! t was my very very lagged ghost. *blush* <g>

<flower^> you did VERY well, slavetoy! ;)

<slavetoy> thank you flower

<Sumptuous> ho no problem moghedien...:))i think everyone split tonight at some point..:)

<Sumptuous> slavetoy you didnt mess up you RULED!!

<moghedien> thanks Sump ;)

<moghedien> see you guys later..it's my beddy bye timem

<slavetoy> hugs Sump thank you for your help

Action: moghedien waves and scampers off

<Sumptuous> slavetoy, thankyou *hugs*

<MindFul1> Thank you very much for sharing your experiences, slavetoy

<slavetoy> blushhh i was glad to share it

<Feline^> awesome slavetoy! *hugz*

<slavetoy> thank you Feline

<oreoh> past my bedtime too.. g'night yall.. and thanks again, slavetoy :)

<Sumptuous> night night oreoh..:)

<Sumptuous> well i think things are winding up everyone shall we end it now?

<prudence> well, i thank you all..i will retreat, as well.

<shedevyl> Night all :)

<Sumptuous> slavetoy what do you think anything else you want to add to your wonderful speach?

<slavetoy> i think so hun

<slavetoy> i am happy i did it

<MindFul1> bye, all. good night. nice job, slavetoy

TheKttN hugs slavetoy:)

<Sumptuous> okay slavetoy i am SO happy you did too!! i knew you would be amazing when i approached you

<Sumptuous> *hugs*..:)) slavetoy

<Sumptuous> Committee wonderful job thankyou each for your help tonight

<slavetoy> thank you all

<Sumptuous> and this past week when i could not be here...:) slavetoy thank you for being so patient

<slavetoy> i had computer trouble today tooo

<slavetoy> i understand

<Sumptuous> :) thanks slavetoy, you were very open and wonderful tonight

<slavetoy> thanks again

<Sumptuous> good night everyone..:)