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The
World of Gor: Part 2 of 2 Continued
Bear-: Now, ask me to explain them. ;) heart{A}: yes there is subangel......but it can be part of a lifestyle and a beautiful part cherry{Pa: i am real live Gorean, and that does not include pretending to serve and describing my body or talking in 3rd person roseStorm cannot keep up with the scroll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 Elektra^: OK, Mindfull, how about it's a philosophy correlating with the position of the Republican party? Bear- chuckles ember`: lol roseStorm, nor can I heart{A}: youdo not serve your Master, cherry? juielle smirls a bit juielle: smirks Elronnd wathces the room. quietly and glideshis fingers thru juielles hair ^essence walks out graciously but before she does she looks at SirDaniel whome she lived with from september 4 to december and says...thankyou Sir for telling everyone the way with lived and lieing to them about it. i know do know the true side of the Master i once serrved...full of lies and no honor MindFul1: Bear, that's a start. why couldn't someone have said that earlier? cinn^: heart, i was trained to serve without all that detail as well...just different styles...it in no way indicates the level or depth of one's submission roseStorm passes out and flops on Elronnd and poor juielle panthera: Mindful...my understanding , from the Gor books...is that Men are the hunters and thus are inbred to be dominant...Women are nurturers and gathers and there for inbred to be submissive. The philosophy is that all women are slaves at heart and that no women can be truely fulfilled if not slave. heart{A} nods heart{A}: no it does not heart{A}: but it still can be done beautifully as an act of submission juielle glances up at Master Elronnd cherry{Pa: yes i serve my Master, cinn^: most certainly can, heart rabbit_: KttN...true...i just havent seen that happen here that badly...i am used to common courtsey from people and tend to get real distresse to see disrespect in people claiming to be slaves panthera: mindful...that is my understanding of the philosophy of Gor and the books...i dont know how many rl ppl believe that. Elronnd taps rose's nose.. roseStorm: What about the "Free Women"??? Elronnd: yes juielle? Bear-: Because they might not understand it, Mindful. :) It takes a while to become Gorean, I think. And the answers are not on IRC. ;) ember`: Wouldn't it be a boring world if we all did things the exact same way? juielle dumps water on rose roseStorm sneezes Elektra^: I agree completely, panthera Covenant: Why do I think this isn't about Gor? TheKttN: actually it was a small bitter faction and unfortunately they reflected on the whole. roseStorm giggles and drips on juielle heart{A} sighs, rising to her feet heart{A}: thank you SirDaniel MindFul1: Bear, that statement is incredibly arrogant. It assumes ignorance. heart{A}: be well allo Bear-: It never was, Covenant. :) juielle eeps LrdSoran: I have only read of Gor. I have never talked with another about the philosophy. I would hope people that take the philosophy serious understand that its not just a point of view. The philosophy hit on a truth of human nature that is lost and denied in todays world Bear-: It is. :) I am pleased you noticed. mila{C}: imagine that rabbit_: i kinda got that impression KttN... lassyALDR smiles elizaKink agrees with LrdSoran panthera: The point is that the books see it as nature...that there is no choice. sassysub: ya know....i find it interesting that some feel it necessary to keep going back to the books....every single person interprets things in their own way...if life were lived by a book alone...how the heck would we grow, learn, experience the true meaning of life and it's emotions?????????? Elronnd pinches rose's behind to make sure shes still awake LordDavon: I am off to go puke and whipe the shit off my ankles. It is knee deep in here. Mastiff: excellent Soran subangel: somehow this reminds me of reading Alice in Wonderland and then having a group of people trying to impersonate that story online ariel^: good. thanks roseStorm: ouch panthera: LordDavon...Sir...wow Bear- chuckles Covenant: Subtle. Very subtle. panthera: Malakye Sir...that is not very honoralbe lassyALDR blinks panthera looks at her fingers and wonders if they are really her own or if they have been transplanted from someone who does not know how to type. cinnamon^: LOL panth Malakye: This small faction...has seen and experienced the REAL SirDaniel.....we have broken bread...and saw all the people hurt by this man.... ^ponygrl^: hi panth! :) ember` considers the source panthera.... panthera: hey pony!!! roseStorm hugz the REAL ariel panthera: oh...i dont know Malakye...so i cant ariel^ hugs rose :-) subangel: many "Masters of Gor" have told me that i just do not understand Gor....that is why i chose to come in here tonight to gain an understanding... Elronnd: that you dont panthera mila{C} shakes her head Bear-: Perhaps, none wish to give it to you, subangel. :) pearl`` wishes that some of the Masters that have been thru here tonight could find at least half the manners SirDaniel has.. irc Gor would be a much nicer place to be at .... filli` is honored to have been welcome here this evening...and pleased to have met so many fine people...and also pleased to have seen some she does not wish to know further...thank you all... subangel: now i realize this has only strengthened the belief that i once had about it LrdSoran: Well, my honor to my employer demands that I leave now and rest so that I may honor our agreement. :) Mastiff chuckles cinnamon^: Malakye, this is a discussion on Gorean ways...this is not a personal debate of the Man or Master MindFul1: ariel, I knew that wasn't you! panthera: no Sir, i dont Elronnd :) TheWolfe: Malakye....are His words misleading? Malakye: Well to be quite honest LordDavon is sitting next to me....watching this display... ariel^: good, thanks Mindful1 :-) Malakye: It is about Gor.... TheWolfe: Malakye....are His words wrong? rabbit_: Malakye: perhaps Your experience with this person was bad...but the disrespect displayed here insulted all of us..not just YOUR intended victim panthera: hello LordDavon Sir...dont know You either panthera waves Elronnd: subangel, id be happy to answer any question you have Malakye: The philosophy of Gor is about Honor... lassyALDR wonders if this talk was about Gor Malakye: submission trust LrdSoran: Be well everyone! chainy: thank you too the speaker and the channel op's a very interesting discussion.. TheWolfe: why wait until now to speak up? Malakye: Hmmmmmm roseStorm: My opinion of Gor remains much as it was before this discussion. However, I do agree with those who have urged us all to work together as a community and respect each other...and I will from now on respect those of Gor and their beliefs subangel: and i have not unkind words about SirDaniel, i think he did a wonderful job as speaker...although i do not believe in his idea of chaining his slaves to the floor to sleep Bear- checkles merrily to himself, thinking of past shipwrecks. Elronnd: Bear.. and crashing planes ? Malakye: cause I was gagged in the channel Hooch^ grins ^ponygrl^ is still groaning deeply over chaining to the floor to sleep Malakye: He would not answer my questions.... Bear-: Indeed, Elronnd. :) Still, it is not without interest. Malakye: my questions were ignored subangel: i wouldnt groan, ponygrl....i would not submit to it....i am not a doormat....i am a submissive panthera finds the thought of being chained ( which i have done) erotic TheWolfe: Malakye....did He mislead in His responses? Elronnd: l never said it wasnt interesting.. l knew waht was going tohappen.. shrugs panthera: LOL rabbit_: there were 60+ people here...trying to participate in what is normally a very civilized discussion.....a discussion of Gor and not personal past.... ^ponygrl^ smiles to subangel Elektra^: wonder why, Malakye roseStorm: agreed subangel!!! ProvokeMe: Had I been in his position Malakye, I would have not answered your questions with your rude and disrespectful manner TheKttN: your questions were not about the topic Malakye but a cowardly personal attack:) Malakye: Why???? ^ponygrl^: I was groaning because I worry that there are those that are submitting to that practice, and it is *DANGEROUS*! Malakye: cowardly??? TheKttN: yep Elronnd: to Rl tho Elronnd: not irc ProvokeMe: ponygrl.... there is chaining... and there is CHAINING.... kahi{E}`: goodnight all, thank you cinn..thank you Master Daniel :))) TheKttN: why wait till now? subangel: oh, i see, ponygrl...yes, there are many Malakye: I think not...I am facing him in front of the massses.... Malakye: That is not cowardly... TheKttN: looking for a pack? Elronnd: +M Kttn panthera notices the smiley face on kttn's words and is not mislead LOL ProvokeMe: in front of the masses but not in the correct forum TheWolfe: I do not know anyone in here...I must take people at their word Mastiff: heh...I own one in real life... ask her if she is in danger...or just imbonded... subangel: ProvokeMe...that sleeping while chained was explained, i believe.. :) lassyALDR: ponygrl a Master having STD and having sex with a sub knowingly is not dangerous?? Elronnd hugs juielle and roseStorm Malakye: It is cowardly to have others protect him...through moderation and gags pearl`` wiggles her toes and hums... thinking it is almost time for nightlies.. as she tastes the blood in her mouth from biting her tongue.... panthera: hi aMM Sir TheWolfe: If one does not have order one has chaos Elektra^: did ya really want the answers, Malakye or ya want to embarass the speaker? ^ponygrl^: It is very dangerous, lassy, I am no time said it was not dangerous. Covenant: Dreadful. Absolutely dreadful. aMstrMind: hello panth ProvokeMe: Malakye... the moderation was to bring about order in the questioning... and not personally directed at anyone ^ponygrl^: I was talking about *chaining* juielle licks Master Elronnd's cheek cinnamon^: Malakye, choosing a public arena that was for the sole purpose of discussing a specific lifestyle and philosophy to attack the Man was without honor, was rude, disrespectful and yes...cowardly Elronnd: pearl... tell SirDaniel that he mentioned some key points... and it was interesting Malakye: A discussion is that a discussion... ^tessa^ has known SirDaniel for 4 years.. real life.. he has always treated me with respect.. and in submission i have never felt uncomfortable or unsafe with him...he has class and honor.. Bear- nods, he has long described the Gorean lifestyle as intense and deangerous and regularly advises people to seek some other form of expression in their lives. Malakye: Then you need to find a speaker who knows about the lifestyle ...not one who hasnt a clue cinnamon^: this is a discussion with a focus and purpose...and you chose to use it to air a personal dispute...we don't tolerate anyone behaving that way here Elektra^: do you, Malakye? ^tessa^ also takes responsibility for herself and hers.. Malakye smiles.... subangel: <sigh> so then, am i to assume i STILL havent learned anything about the Gorean lifestyle? juielle kind of agrees with Master Malakye Malakye: you would need to ask those who know mw. TheWolfe: Malakye...what would You like to add....that is not a personal attack? Malakye: in R/T sassysub: ponygrl....i would think and certainly hope that while being chained at his/her Master/Mistresses bedside, that person would still be protected in teh highest of manners...true, accidents do happen...lets just thank WHOEVER you believe in, that technology has allowed us to ability to free ourselves safely from any of harms way TheKttN: tessa you are not the only one of SirDaniel's slaves to say that tonight. :) Elronnd: subangel... ill be happy to tell you about GOR Malakye: you would hope.... Elektra^: If ya know that much Malakye....... tell me :))))))) subangel: i still have my beliefs about what Gor is....and they were intensifed tonight by what i have heard... roseStorm: subangel: listen to Elronnd...he is quite wise!.....and knowledgeable pearl``: this one only lived at SirDaniels one month .. He has honor.. and is fair .. kind.. and a very strict Master.. that would never put a slave in danger.. ponygirl .. the chains were not locks.. there was an escape in case of fire........ TheKttN: Malakye, just as we cannot find the *ONE* speaker on BDSM we are open to many on the Gorian lifestyle also. ^tessa^ knows you real life Malakye.. and i will not stoop to tell you what i think of you panthera: sassysub...yes i think that rabbit made a good point...there are ways to escape in chains and... most Masters would take care of emergencies pearl``: lock = locked.... TheWolfe: Malakye...what makes You right & SirDaniel wrong? panthera really LIKES chains alot juielle thinks Master Elronnd's derriere is cute too Malakye: well tessa....we know you too....:) Elronnd: yeah yeah girl... oyu think that of allt he Masters.. :) roseStorm: sure is juielle!!!! TheWolfe: isn't this all about choice? juielle: ummmm subangel believes a D/s relationship hold honor, consideration, respect and LOVE.... juielle: only the cute ones! ^ponygrl^: I can only say that I made the comment to leave no doubt for other's listening that may not know that, that there is a choice here. Locked or not, think twice.. my opinion only. sassysub came here open-minded enough to learn that, although i don't think Gor is for me, i respect and understand more about it now than i did before tonight....for that i thank SirDaniel and those who were kind enough to ask serious questions and not ridicule panthera: your point was a good one pony subangel: how could a Master love his sub and keep her chained to the floor to sleep...that is not love in my opinion...that is pure cruelty Hardlord picks aph up and throws her over his shoulder with a grin... TheWolfe: there seems to be a crack in the "World of Gor" panthera: well...all i have to workin an hour and need to go watch The X-Files..okay okay! i am addicted! Mastiff: who said anything about LOVE? SirDaniel: sassysub: thank you. subangel: i would remove my collar before i did that aph giggles and waves goodbye aMstrMind grins at panth subangel: subangel did, Mastiff... panthera: mmmm subangel...it can be wondeful Malakye: LIke I said.....this lifestyle is about responsibilty for you r actions...I am here to take mine.... Hardlord: enough already with the personal attacks... ^ponygrl^: subangel, I will openly admit that there are times I *like* sleeping on the floor, but would I do it with chains, no. Hardlord shakes his head.. rabbit_: bye panthera Bear-: Perhaps you are not ready to understand, subangel, or do you claim to be the judge of what is and is not "right"? Hardlord: goodnight all. Elektra^: well, she doesn't have to stay there subangel, does she? panthera: bye rabbit :) ^tessa^ nods.. ^ponygrl^... there is always a choice.. and one must be responsible as an adult to take responsibility for one's self.. yes a Master should have your best interest at heart.. but to follow blindly is foolish and unsafe aMstrMind: panth, haven't you heard of a vcr? roseStorm thinks one of the nicest things in life is to be held in Master's arms as they fall asleep....that and spooning! TheKttN: bye aph and HardLord:) panthera: gosh i hate to leave this interesting convo subangel: well, i dont want to and would not....i would remove my collar first Hardlord carries his girl out into the guiet sanity of the inight aph: bye KttN :) TheWolfe: subangel...that is your choice & that should be respected pearl``: also .. on the point of safety .... please check your fire extingquishers to see that they are in working order .. before waxing ... fireplay etc.. is done :):):) panthera: aMM...i am recording t!!! Bear-: Exactly. :) sassysub: subangel....it is your right ....but don't condemn others for what they believe is for them aph: thanks for the discussion :) subangel: that's right, TheWolfe....but does a slave have any rights? TheKttN: nice seeing you:) subangel: i am a submissive TheWolfe: want to know the ending of the x-files? TheWolfe: saw it earlier Elronnd: i do i ksaw it :) Elektra^: hhmmmm..... to what extent subangel? Malakye: sure...more interesting then what I have seen so far... ProvokeMe watched it... and is still confused panthera: Wolfe if you tell while i am on here i will haunt Your Dreams Sir panthera looks at Wolfe TheWolfe: lol Elronnd: i missed the one last week panthera: heheh Elronnd sighs listening to the melt down as he holds them inhis lap subangel: to the extent, Elektra, that to my Master i am as a slave, in fact...but he would know my limits and respects them panthera: and panthera ppl are not nice ones to be in dreams panthera: ]okay...going aMstrMind waves to ariel juielle gives a wriggle, wondering when she got on a lap TheWolfe: since consent was not given panthera, I respect your request ariel^: hi aMM :-) Mastiff: I have a question for the Dom/sub people... roseStorm: gotta watch that Elronnd, juielle, he's sneaky! sassysub: aaahhhh...aren't limits to be pushed??? or do you want to stay in the safety of the confines you have set for yourself??? that is up to you and your Master/Top/Dom etc.... TheWolfe: go ahead Mastiff Elektra^: no one would make you to stay chained to a bedpost, subangel if you stated it was outside your limits Mastiff: do you find many Goreans visiting the channels? cherry{Pa: i have been srolling back reading, where a slave sleep, and whether she is chained is her Masters choice juielle laughs Mastiff: the D/s channels... Elronnd: <--- moi sneaky?/ no im jsut cute :) so so its said.. grins sassysub: yes we do Mastiff....mostly Gorean slaves roseStorm: cute AND sneaky! Bear- chuckles TheWolfe: is that your question? Bear-: So we hear. :) TheWolfe: slaves do TheKttN: yes Mastiff we try to be open and EFnet does not have many Gor channels. Mastiff nods cherry{Pa: a slave does not make decisions about what her Master wishes rabbit_: cherry...yes...for the slave that has submitted totally to every whim of her Masters...but some like to keep some control and refuse things...why these people wanna be laves i dunno Elronnd: Mastiff... what youve seen is why.. Malakye: Some here...think that a weekend or aeven a couple week visit.....is the same as real life......its not. Mastiff: just wondering... we see Doms and subs, just wondering how common it is Malakye: I claim only to be me....no more no less... cherry{Pa: but if you keep control you are not a slave cherry{Pa: you cant say no i dont accept this part of your domination ^ponygrl^: cherry, do you wish to have any control over your career choices? rabbit_: yes..i knw cherry...i think of them as subs...not slaves...but to some slavery is a word and not a lifestyle TheWolfe: I am surprised, Malakye at the number of purely cyber relationships in s/m or Gor cinnamon^: cherry...are you sayign that to be a salve one needs to have NO limits? ProvokeMe happens to find a distaste for the word "slave"... it implies an unwillingness to serve and is the total opposite of what I believe D/s to be MindFul1: I'm curious about where this idea of Dom(me) applying only to the bedroom comes from. SirDaniel stated that in his presentation. sassysub: i've been to Gor channels before and was met w/rudeness simply because i am not completely aware of they 'rules/ways' of that lifestyle...how do you learn other than by reading...i like to talk to ppl about it..but it's not allowed cherry{Pa: no i have no choices Malakye: Nite Dan...see ya soon...:) cherry{Pa: over anything, cinnamon^: cherry, you have no limits? Elronnd: HOLD EVERYTHING>>>> roseStorm kisses Elronnd, hugs juielle, and waves to the channel . . . thanking SirDaniel for his valuable time. Elronnd: l HAVE A DEMONSTRATION sasha_: hello Mastiff: visit #Silk&Steel on austnet...it is discussion cherry{Pa: none at all sasha_: Oh I am so sorry I missed the discussion Elektra^: that's a very interesting point of view, ProvokeMe :))))))) roseStorm multiplies herself by zero roseStorm: *POOF* sassysub: hi sasha :) cherry{Pa: my Master would never tell me to do something that i should not do Elronnd: cherry... l woudl like to demonstrate a point that is clear for everyone.. cinnamon^: cherry, i'm sorry, but a person can be slave and still have limits...it is unsafe and unwise to be otherwise in many cases sasha_: Hello to all Elronnd: i woudl like you to help me please.. TheKttN: Mastiff this went so well i believe fireNdark has also invited ZZed to speak here:) ^ponygrl^: cherry, what if your Master is wrong? Does he take responsibility for his errors, or does he put it on you? Bear- grins widely cherry{Pa: depends on your Master Mastiff: that...would be excellent... Bear-: That is Zeb. :) TheKttN: SirDaniel ignited a spark. SirDaniel: MindFul1: what I stated was that by MY defination that a Dom(me) is restriced to bedroom only.. did not say that was everyones. rabbit_: cherry....when i am owned...neither do i...but finding a real Master to assume the full time responsibility of a person isnt easy...soo many wanna bes and pretenders it is hard to trust Hooch^ nudges mnm and s tands.....It has been an interesting evening to say the least, I appreciate the opportunity to ask my questions and hope they were taken on their merits, as a way to learn more about Gor cherry{Pa: my Master does not make errors Bear-: He co-owns the #silk&STeel with some jerk. :) TheKttN: ooooooops Zeb i type badly:) Mastiff: yeah...some jackass tapestry: really cherry? He's not human? sasha{Bea: Master Zeb, that is :) BearofAr: That guy. Hooch^: LOL Bear cinnamon^: cherry...your Master is human...as such He is fallible and imperfect TheWolfe: jerk jackass TheKttN: you were both ratted out immediately hehe Elronnd: yeah um that Bear one i think.. ariel^: everyone makes errors. its part of being human SirDaniel: cherry{Pa: if he is human.. then yes he does..>:) TheWolfe: interesting Mastiff throws a tospit at Bear MindFul1: SirDaniel, I can say that a stone is a leaf, but doesn't mean much. You need to lose that concept. It's completely untrue. tapestry nods in agreement with SirDaniel cherry{Pa: if he does he takes responsibility SirDaniel: Greetings Master Bear Elronnd: Tal Dez... DezMonyc: Tal El BearofAr: Greetings Daniel. I have not worn this name for many months. :) Hooch^: Be well all subangel rises and prepares to leave this channel where she wasted so much of her precious time Elronnd: Tal Hooch sasha_: I think there is great pressure in expecting your Dominant/Master to be perfect it is not possible Elronnd: very insight ful questions this eve subangel is going to fly away now `·.._(¯`·._(¯`·._ ~Ä~ _.·´¯)_.·´¯)_.·´¯) `·._(¯`·._(¯`·._ ~Ä~ _.·´¯)_.·´¯)_.· ´¯) `·._(¯`·._(¯`·._ ~Ä~ _.·´¯)_.·´¯)_.·´¯ ariel^: exactly. a good master takes responsibility for his errors cherry{Pa: its a question of trust, my Master owns all of me, and uncondtionally TheKttN: good night Hooch and thank you SirDaniel: MindFul1: If I picked up a leaf.. and called it a stone.. and told peole that this is my defination of a stone.. yes it would... ^tessa^ waves.. thanks for the great discussion.. TheWolfe: cherry are you r/l or cyber Hooch^: Is this a regular sunday night thing? `mnm: bye everyone SirDaniel: ask William Shakspear.. cherry{Pa: real life TheWolfe Hooch^: Shoo girl.....see you in the garden TheWolfe: thank you TheKttN: every other Sunday, we post it on the website pearl`` is about to cry with all the talk of being chain to the foot of the bed... * missing her chain * :( MindFul1: That, SirDaniel, is a denigration of reason, and objectively evil Elronnd: Hooch yes.. cinnamon^: cherry, i find is pretentious for anyone to ever say that a slave isn't a slave or can not fully serve if they have limits...Master's are human...and there are other issues that come into play...example..i'm an insulin dependent diabetic...that means no breaking of my skin...no piercing or anything like that....do my health risks make my heart any less what i am? Elronnd: with different topics Mastiff winks at sasha Hooch^ nods.....Will make a point to return Hooch^ wanders off sasha_: kiss DezMonyc gives sasha_ a big SmooCH to } sasha_ { Elronnd: be well taryn... wheres my hug? TheWolfe: good point cinnamon sasha{Bea winks at Master Mastiff..... and sends a paga hot thought his way :) cherry{Pa: but your Master shuld know that cinnamon sasha_: opps TheKitten dat was for you missend ...grin Elronnd: thank you lil one.. smiles cherry{Pa: he will take care of you Mastiff grins... vixen TheKttN: hehe *kiss* sasha cinnamon^: cherry...it's still a limit...and i can still serve completely with that limit in place ProvokeMe: but the point cherry is that there is ALWAYS a limit... no matter how close or far taryn Runs and leaps into Master Elronnds Lap and Smothers him with kisses ariel^: hopefully, you would not submit as a slave to someone who didnt take those kinds of things into account ^ponygrl^ nods and agrees with Provoke cherry{Pa: if you have to set limits then your Master is not your Master TheWolfe: a submissive is responsible for herself/himself BearofAr: In D/s cin, no. In our philosophy, it certianly could. The problem is that many seek to apply criteria to our lifestyle that we do not adhere to. Call it what you will, and we agree it is dangerous and not for many, it is what we are. cinnamon^: no, cherry....that is merely your opinion on the matter ProvokeMe: if your master chooses to ignore that limit... he is neither a master or a human being... cherry{Pa smiles Elronnd grins Dez, this is the open discussion peroiod Elektra^: I think I had enough, ppl. See ya'll later....... here is Elektra's smile for some of you :))))))))))))))))) sasha_: cherry{Pa I do not agree sasha_: we all have limits cherry{Pa: yes, that is true, as are all what is said here ProvokeMe: well said BearofAr TheWolfe chooses submissives with minds sasha_: even if they are unspoken mayaslave waves bye, thank you for the hospitality Lerxst-: what were you going to say about this rolex? sassysub: cherry, sometimes it's not that the sub/slave is setting his/her limits...life has done that for him/her...a Master cannot control ALL of life...it is impossible and quite honestly, i would think awful damn stressful DezMonyc: I have very little to say rabbit_: there are no absolutes ....everything is compromise...but cherry...you have given your submission to someone you trust to care for you...i did that in the past too...but what do you do when that trust is broken? TheWolfe: extremely stressful & selfish of the sub cherry{Pa: i guess i am lucky Elronnd: no one has really asked me to say anyhting... ^ponygrl^: Dom/mes & Master/Mistresses do have limits too. There may be things I want, but they are not in line with what Master wants. Therefore, it is a limit for *him* ...not me. MindFul1: Take care, all. See you at the next discussion. good night. cinnamon^: Bear, Sir...point taken...and in Your lifestyle then...if my diabetes negated my heart and soul....then it is the potential Masters who lose out and it is truly their loss cherry{Pa: never has my Master ever asked me to do anything that i felt i couldnot TheWolfe: I would not want My sub that dependent on Me sassysub: agreed, TheWolfe TheWolfe: it is unfair to both of us ProvokeMe smiles broadly at cinnamon, ,knowing she is correct tapestry thanks all for the information and poofs TheWolfe: what if I am no longer here sasha_: I think when we speak of lifestyle choices they are just that we all have a choice of how to live even if it is to have no choice... cinnamon^ smiles "Thank You, provokeMe, Sir" BearofAr: Perhaps, cin, but in our way of thinking, you are only a slave, and there are many many of those available. It is, perhaps, *the* defining thing that seperates what we do with a relationship from the "norm". sasha_: and we all have the right to that choice TheKttN: same here cherry but for me, that was also finding someone who suited me. siara: night to all cinnamon^: Bear, Sir, i'm not gorean..and i'm not "just" anything...the gift i give through my submission is a precious one...and not all are worthy of it Elronnd: juielle.. perahps you might like to get Dez and myself something to drink? sasha_: but to speak of your perspective being that which all others should share is the utmost misplacement of ego ProvokeMe: a D/s form of Darwinism BearofAr? Elronnd: well myself then Elronnd: please? juielle: ummmm juielle: here? sasha{Bea smiles cherry{Pa: its not a gift juielle looks for a bar Elronnd: well yes.. TheWolfe: a Gorean Master or a Master of s/m without a slave or dub is nothing cinnamon^: cherry, submission is given..not taken cherry{Pa: submission is taken from a girl BearofAr: That is where the outlooks differ. To us, your submission is not a gift. It is the manner in which you fulfill your destiny. The "gift" is a freepersons' attention to you. sassysub: Bear, Sir....only a slave??? that says to me that the health and well being of that slave is irrelevant...who gives a crud, let her die rabbit_: submission...not a gift? what is it then that you give your Owner cherry? TheWolfe: dub=sub cherry{Pa: she begs for it to be taken sassysub: correct me if i'm wrong, please Sir! cherry{Pa: i am his slave BearofAr: I said nothing of the sort sassy. :) I said what I wrote, you may go back and re read it if need be. cinnamon^: cherry....if taken without consent...that's rape pearl``: " pearl is gorean .. and does not see many many many real life slaves available .. seems like Masters should make sure the ones that they have stay healthy ;) " and if the Master is a good Master will probably will ;) juielle slides off Master Elronnd's lap and trots over to a red door. sasha{Bea: sassy...this girl is owned by Master BearofAr for some time now. She trusts him without reservation. And would submit to his will at any time, in any realm. rabbit_: hmm...taken...i guess i am more used to conventional lifestyle of safe, sane, and consentual cherry{Pa: i agree with sasha BearofAr: Yes, rabbit, and there is nothing wrong with that. :) sasha_: I can understand what cherry says it is an exchange... a gift is perhaps a romantic connotation many of us enjoy juielle disappears behind the door then reappears in a moment with a goblet of chilled ka la na BearofAr: But we are a bit.... different. :) Mastiff: why would a Master wish harm on what he owns? rabbit_ smiles at Bear cherry{Pa: NO ProvokeMe: difference is the spice of life TheWolfe: how are You different Bear? kamira-MF smiles and hurries over to her Master...kneeling down at his feet quietly ProvokeMe: otherwise we would ALL be vanilla cherry{Pa: why would he damage his property BearofAr: Some would do well to remember that, Provokeme. sassysub: sasha, i'm not being disrespectful to your Master, at least not intentionally...i'm merely trying to understand what he is saying.... kamira-MF: Greetings Master Bear and sasha :) elizaKink: our differences should be celebrated, not condemned sasha{Bea was trying to help you understand, sassy :) cinnamon^: agreed eliza BearofAr: I live my life by a set of principles, Wolfe, by which I can call myself Gorean. In that, I am differnt than most TheWolfe: & encouraged eliza elizaKink: and i am ashamed of those i know from d/s net who have made asses out of themselves here tonight. TheWolfe: different, but the same BearofAr: Not better, not worse... BearofAr: different sassysub smiles...thank-you sasha TheWolfe: I like different cherry{Pa: only in complete submission can a girl be truely free ProvokeMe: I would like to say that exist elizaKink, but other than tonight, all my experiences with Gor have been Goreans coming to #submission telling the channel members there that we are wrong.. and that gor is right BearofAr smiles TheWolfe: Gor is another choice rabbit_: i will say i rarely see Gorean behaviors in public BDSM clubs or parties...are there clubs out there for real lifestylers? sasha{Bea: sassy.....many are not Gorean. It is not a crime to chose not to explore at that level. sasha hopes you enjoy your journey where you are :) BearofAr: IT is very likely, Provokeme, that you have yet to meet a "real" Gorean in any long-term manner. Mastiff: excellent point, Bear ProvokeMe: point well taken... but you understand me correct? cinnamon^: cherry, it's wonderful you have a Master knowledgable and experienced enough that you can trust....one who knows how to protect and care...problem is...there are so many more who aren't experienced or who don't know...who even in learning unintentionally harm....and we have to protect against harm....to ignore that and have no limits can be stupid and dangerous sasha_: I think the problem in understanding the Gorean lifestyle is how to seperate it from the books juielle eases to her knees before Master Elronnd, sliding her thighs wide apart. She glides the goblet upward along her belly, presses it to her heart for three beats then brings it to her lips for a kiss to the rim. TheWolfe: My personal exposure to Gor has been SirMidian sasha_: what parts make up the Gorean life style BearofAr: No, rabbit. There are no clubs that I know of. Indeed, this is a dangerous lifestyle. I am not sure that getting many of us together in one place would be a good thing. :) sasha_: and what parts are recognized as a fantasy rabbit_: so it is mainly cyber only? Mastiff: we tend to be a scrappy bunch... juielle turns the goblet and offers it up to Master Elronnd with arms extended over her head, presenting Him with the just kissed rim. lassyALDR smiles softly :)) BearofAr: I do understand you, ProvokeMe. This is why I seldom do what Daniel did here tonight any longer. :) ProvokeMe: I doubt that rabbit.... just no clubs julia{MT}: it does appear that ppl who are new to a lifestyle speak out most voraciously...perhaps because they are not yet secure in their chosen lifestyle? Mastiff: I dont want a smelly Ol' Bear at my house.... juielle: may this wine quench Master Elronnd's thirst and may the service of a kajira bring pleasure ProvokeMe: why is that Bear? sassysub: aahhh sasha...my interests rest in everything that is new to me...i in no way see Gor as being something to be ridiculed...you can ask anyone who knows me Elronnd smiles and glidesh fingers thru juielles hair and acros sher shoudlers, and down ehr arms and lifts the goblet from her fingertips TheWolfe: we can all learn from each other cherry{Pa: you might be right Cinnomon i have been with my Master so long, and i will follow him wherever he might lead Elronnd then licksthe rim and sips from the kiss spot.... Elronnd sips deeply and hten whipsers well done juielle, im pleased.. dismissed return to my lap BearofAr: Because it accomplishes little. Those who think we are insane, or playing a fantasy refuse to look deeper and those who *do* understand need not. The others come out mostly confused. :) TheWolfe: the first thing we should learn is to be non-judgmental rabbit_: well...20 years ago there were no "public clubs" but still my Owner at the time had social contact for parties and gatherings....i guess what i am asking is do Gor followers do that as well? cherry{Pa: but i dont consider my submission to be a gift with limits ProvokeMe: to be honest... this has only piqued my interest.... kami{MF}: gift? ProvokeMe: I do not think it is for me.... but has interested me nonetheless BearofAr: rabbit: I have met other men I consider Gorean, and have taken sasha with me. But there are no "gatherings" that I know of. lassyALDR: rabbit indeed ..many of us get together in RL and there are many RL gorean relationships. cherry{Pa: if it was, it would be.... pointless SirDaniel: rabbit_: yes we do.. I open my home to the members of BondageII twice a year.. for a week long ga thering... sassysub: i would think that with the recent 'annoying' visits to #submission by disrespectful vanillas would make everyone non-Gor understand that what is being done to us, some of us are doing to those that are Gorean kami{MF}: cherry: please how can something be a gift when it is taken? cherry{Pa: it is not a gift, it is taken TheWolfe: what is being taken? ProvokeMe: well said sassysub : ) kami{MF}: OK :) pearl``: rabbit we had a gor gathering in a club in march .. it was interesting .. just a meeting to met other gorean Masters and slaves.. and even a few from S&S attended :) cherry{Pa: i begged for it to be taken BearofAr: And those who think they are Gorean, do it right back to you, sassy. It is a vicious circle of disregard. kami{MF}: that is good, thank you cinnamon^: kami...there's a little thing called respect and consent....you can not take submission...it must be freely given Mastiff: heh... kami{MF}: respect? juielle slides back onto Master Elronnd's lap kami{MF}: Master do you respect kamira? ProvokeMe: cherry... let me ask a question so that I may understand.... If I were Gorean, and there was a slave that was not taken... could I just take her as my own? BearofAr chuckles Mastiff: not at all, kamira... kami{MF}: phew TheWolfe: I believe safe, sane & consensual is respected in both communities rabbit_: i remember reading the books...years ago...and sometimes we had Gor theme parties...it is interesting to see the training applied in rl kami{MF}: thank you Master lassyALDR chuckles softly cherry{Pa: i imagine not ProvokeMe ProvokeMe: hten how can you say that it is taken? sassysub: exactly, Bear, Sir...and to say it again, it is our responsibility to each other to respect and stop ridiculing what we do not understand BearofAr smiles at sassy. BearofAr: Again, human nature. :) ProvokeMe: if I cannot just take it... wouldn;t the slave have to consent to it being taken? cherry{Pa: mine was taken, but i wanted it taken, i did not give it as a gift TheWolfe: yes you did cinnamon^: you consented then ProvokeMe: but you had to CONSENT to have it taken TheWolfe: lol kami{MF} consented to have no more freedom...thats was the last choice kamira made Mastiff: Id bet she BEGGED to have it taken... Mastiff: kam did kami{MF} nods excitedly kami{MF}: yup yup kamira sure did :) sassysub: unfortunately so, Sir....lol, you shoulda seen my 'speech' on #sub the other day...it's a passion of mine that ppl learn to respect others....i refuse to give up, although i know it will never happen...not completely cherry{Pa: i was given no choice but to submit BearofAr: One must respect the laws of the land, A part of the honor and integrity I spoke of earlier. It is important to note that we as Goreans do not wish to live our lives out of a book, therefore, we take the philosophy and apply it as strictly as we can to our lives here. We do not, by the way, ride Large smelly birds to work either. ;) cherry{Pa: lol sassysub: lol kami{MF}: lol kami{MF}: :) ProvokeMe: lol Bear... I would hope not rabbit_: but do You brand? (always wanted that) Mastiff: my car used to SMELL like a tarn, tho... sassysub: if ya did...i want a picture of it TheWolfe: what is a car Bear> ProvokeMe: and if you did.... don;t fly over my car please BearofAr: That is funny, but it is the same thing, am I beign clear? cinnamon^ is a strong woman with a mind...who knows how to use it...and i will be respected as the person i am...i would not want a man of any kind who didn't respect me ....and submission....the beauty of it is when it comes from strength...not from weakness kami{MF}: ack kami{MF}: branding kami{MF}: umm no BearofAr: I do not live my life out of a book ariel^: Dm!!! :-) kami{MF}: sasha you branded? sassysub: are slaves not submitting themselves???? have they not chosen to be a slave? BearofAr: I live my life as a man, as Gorean as possible in this society. D`master: ariel!! :)) cherry{Pa: i am not a weak person kami{MF} looks Elronnd: Tal Gam cherry{Pa: dynamic Elronnd: been a long while :) cinnamon^: never said you were, cherry sasha{Bea: no, kami.....only on a girl's heart. that will change, when it pleases my Master to see his girl branded lassyALDR: greetings Master Gam :)) Mastiff: Tal Gam Gam: Tal Elronnd kami{MF}: Greetings Master Gam :) TheWolfe: branding....now there is a topic! BearofAr: She earns her brand, kami. ProvokeMe: unfortunately I am tired and need to hit the sack... I would very much like to continue this discussion.. : ( ProvokeMe: good night all... sassysub cringes at the thought of being branded......oooooouuuuuuch Mastiff: a slaves lot is difficult...and Gor is not fair... Elronnd: nite PM cherry{Pa: no, but i think sometimes people mistake slavery with weakness ariel^: night PM sassysub: nite PM, Sir** Elronnd: did a good job moderating ProvokeMe: thank you for the information, those that have provided it... TheKttN: good night ProvokeMe *hugs* BearofAr: I sit on aust.net in #silk&Steel on occasion to do jus tthat, Provokeme. Stop by. :) ^ponygrl^: night, ProvokeMe kami{MF}: Yes Master Bear :) ProvokeMe: I believe I will do that Bear... thank you for the kind invitation pearl``: farewell, Master ProvokeMe RevFunk: greetings all prophet of Funk is here! Mastiff: I would not brand kamira...because I do not have the skill... sasha{Bea smiles ProvokeMe: goodnight sassysub: Bear, Sir...may i mssg sasha? Mastiff: and dont with to mark up my property... rabbit_: my last Master had me get His symbol tattoo'd on my body and my nipple pierced...the Owner i am now negotiating with will want me branded (not Gorean Btw) i just wondered if Ya'll knew of people that could brand well Mastiff: wish BearofAr: Yes sassy sassysub: thank-you Sir TheKttN: rabbit, there is a website for branding, both self and by another TheWolfe is in Toronto & knows of one or two rabbit BearofAr: rabbit, check the net. Gam: what are the URL's? TheKttN: i'm looking now rabbit_: hmm..Toronto isnt too far from Him....are they reliable Wolfe, Sir? Elronnd: how are oyu diong Gam Elronnd: ? TheWolfe: very sasha_: I have a question for the channel Gam: not bad Elronnd Gam: just collared a slave the other day juielle nuzzles her lips to Master Elronnd's neck as she listens quietly TheWolfe: I suggest you contact The Marquessa TheKttN: Body Modification E-zine (Not for the faint of heart) TheKttN: http://www.bme.freeq.com / TheWolfe: she has a web-site BearofAr listens. ember` returns muttering, I hate my computer, I hate my computer..... Elronnd: you did congratulations :) rabbit_: sasha...what? cherry{Pa: before branding you should apply ice to the area sasha_: Why if we accept others kinks from scat to Bedroom only BDSm why is it so difficult to accept that some like Gor or any particular life style choice? TheKttN shrugs BearofAr: I have my ideas, but they are insulting, I admit. :) ember`: good question BearofAr: Although I mean them not to be. rabbit_ makes a note of the site information and The Marquessa rabbit_: thanks Mastiff: same here... sasha_: Is it not the freedom we all treasure the freedom of choice...as I said even the choice to have no choice TheWolfe: people fear or ridicule what they don't understand ember`: very true Elronnd: and when they still dont understand they conintue with what happend tonight... TheWolfe: true Elronnd Elronnd: shakehsis head.. and wathces oncemore.. stroking juielles hair TheKttN: i see a lot of the same things being said. just in different ways. SirDaniel stands.. and wishs to thank you and all that made this a wonderful experience.. and to those that did not... you have my sympathy... I did truly enjoy it.. BearofAr: They also ridicule what they fear, or cannot attain. It is a part of human nature. TheWolfe: true Elronnd: THank you SIrDaniel sasha_: I am not Gorean but I accept my friends choice to live that style I am Arturoarian and thats that grin rabbit_: thanks again Daniel, Sir...i enjoyed Your discussion BearofAr: Take care, Daniel. ;) ember`: oft times, IMHO, I believe it is because the person belittling needs to feel important and that is the only way he/she can TheKttN smiles warmly at SirDaniel if was a wonderful evening and thank you sasha_: I am sorry i missed it Sir Danial we had guests kami{MF}: kamira wishes you well Master SirDaniel Mastiff: I would ask... how many Doms and subs have their lifestyle control all of their life... not just a part of it...but a life philosophy ember` smiles at Sir Daniel, glad she missed some of her beauty sleep to listen :) sassysub: thank-you SirDaniel for taking your time...it's greatly appreciated :) TheKttN: i didn't want to say petty jealousy but well said ember. TheWolfe: play safe everyone...good night ember` smiles, thank you :) BearofAr: Go lassie Gam: be well Wolfe julia{MT}: thank You SirDaniel, i heard the beginning...not the terrible part i guess :( rabbit_: in the past i have Mastiff, Sir...i am currently uncollared and in negotiations for another 24/7 collar....i much prefer full slavery and living the lifestyle constantly TheKttN: mine controls my life, there is not one second i am not a slave. lassyALDR: thank You Master Bear ..lassy wishes You well lassyALDR: be well everyone :)) cherry{Pa: this slave is controlled 24/7 Mastiff lassyALDR: goodnight cherry{Pa: this slave is controlled 24/7 Master Mastiff nods... Elronnd: well all, many of you know me... SirDaniel: thank you again ... and Bear.. we will have to sit and chat over a Kahlua on nite..>:) ember`: Well Master Mastiff, I am not owned or in a relationship at the moment, but the best ones I have seen have a great deal of very vanilla, if you will "normal" times..... BearofAr: I beleive he speaks of freepersons, and how do they live "dom" 24/7. Gor is not a bdsmds philosophy to many of us, it is a lifestyle philosophy which permeates all of our lives. SirDaniel: Mastiff: and you will see me soon as well..>:) cherry{Pa: but she has much freedom within that control Master Mastiff Elronnd: lve things to do ill be sure to see most of you again.. Elronnd: grins Elronnd stands BearofAr: Indeed, Daniel. :) Elronnd: and drainshis kalana.. rabbit_: but i can tell Ya Sir...in 1978...there werent alot of us lifestylers around...BDSM is so trendy now its harder to tell "real" from "players" Elronnd: thats wine.. :) juielle falls to the floor gracefully rabbit_: bye Elronnd, Sir Elronnd strokes juielle's cheek careful hon :) cinnamon^: Goodnight everyone...and thank You again SirDaniel juielle kisses Master Elronnd's cheek k Elronnd then picks her up and puts her on his shoulder.. and departs SirDaniel: good nite cinn.. and thank you once more Mastiff: yes, that is what I mean, Bear...does it pervade other areas of your life... juielle: eek juielle waves bye *** Signoff: SirDaniel (Read error: 0 (Error 0 occurred.)) BearofAr: Honor, integrity and brotherhood. pearl`` rises.. blows kisses.. and departs quietly ....... Mastiff: Gorean philosophy is not about owning a slave to me...it is how I choose to live drose{FB}: nite all BearofAr nudges MAstiff BearofAr: I think we bored them all away. :) Mastiff nods Mastiff: we are boring...arent we TheKttN: well i hope none of it just about owning a slave:) TheKttN: no xfiles is on :) BearofAr: You are smelly and boring. I am just smelly. Mastiff: some seem to think it is rabbit_: yes...that is something i remember of the books i rarely see mentioned on the channels....honor...usually it seems to focus on sex and collars Mastiff: right... cherry{Pa: what is boring? julia{MT}: thank You all for introducing us to Your lifestyle :) Mastiff: I tape your lectures for insomniatic nights... BearofAr: rabbit, at times we wish that the ones who claim to be Gorean had never heard of the word "honor". It is bandied about too easily. rabbit_: may i ask You Gentlemen....do Your slaves serve You through macros on irc? or do they type those services each time? ariel^: hehehe kami{MF} types each time rabbit TheKttN: i'm not Gorian but yes i believe that a Gorian Masters word means everything. BearofAr smiles BearofAr: I have no one serve me in IRC. Mastiff: mine gets her ass out of her computer chair and fetches what I want Mastiff grins kami{MF} smiles prettily BearofAr: Nor do I wear the -ofAr on my nick any longer, I changed to tease Daniel. :) BearofAr: I am not of Ar. I am of the USA. :) *** BearofAr is now known as Bear- Mastiff: USA claims you? rabbit_: thats refreshing....i personally abhor macros used in service under the guise of slavery Bear-: There, better. :) Bear-: They have to, I paid taxes. Mastiff nudges Bear Bear-: But, if I instructed sasha to do so, she would. :) Whether she abhored it or not. sasha{Bea smiles...yes, Master kami{MF} smiles sassysub thanks all that were nice enough to come to the discussion.....this happy lil chick is going to bed :) Mastiff: goodnight, girl Gam smiles cherry{Pa: a slave does whatever her Master says, always, irrespective of her opinions TheKttN: night sassysub:) Gam: good night sassysub Mastiff: not always... sassysub: Bear, Sir...thank-you for your insights....and sasha is wonderful, thank-you for allowing us to speak :)) Bear- nods Mastiff: but then...that is why whips are made sassysub: KttN....wonderful as always, love *hugs* sasha{Bea: good night, sassy rabbit_: well...in that i differ....my Master rewards me with whips and torture me by refusing the floggings *giggle* Bear-: It is important to note that as a Gorean, I do not wish to "convert" anyone to my way of thinking. In truth, I would be much more at ease if 95% of those online who claimed to be Gorean would move on to the next fad... Mastiff: youve never been whipped by a Gorean Master.... Gam: LOL TheKttN: hehe TheKttN: don't you, we send all of ours to you *wink* Mastiff: are we "in vogue", Bear? Mastiff: damn... cherry{Pa: no i dont think you have been whipped my a Gorean Master rabbit rabbit_: ahhh Sir...i have been whipped to the point where i had a DOA tag on my foot in the emergency room....i doubt anyone could be worse than that Bear-: Make no mistake. This lifestyle is not for everyone. There is true danger here if a man is not on control of himself. TheKttN: same in this one Bear- nods aMstrMind: rabbit: how did that come to happen? kami{MF} blinks Mastiff: and that is something you....like? shyla{LR} blinks also Bear-: But in bdsm, Kttn, the sub retains a measure of control, even one so small as a safe word. We have no such thing. TheKttN: there are different levels of submission rabbit_: my first Owner was a sadist....and i had a no safeword lifestyle at the time...i was His to dispose of as He wished...needless to say He is no longer my Master kami{MF}: safeword? TheKttN: we tend to even accept the weekend playparty ppl Bear-: Of course there are. And none are less valid than any other, I feel. They are not, however, all the same. TheKttN: no very different kami{MF} learns more and more each week about Dom/subs aMstrMind: rabbit: did you have him arrested? aMstrMind: that sounds like attempted murder to me sasha_: dusting myself off once more... rabbit_: no Sir...i was His slave for 10 years...my submission was to the point where i would never consider that aMstrMind: submission or brainwashing? rabbit_: no one ever said true slavery was easy...now that it is more trendy and public it is also safer aMstrMind: I find it amazing how many ways there are to justify cruelty and an evil spirit. Saying someone is a sadist does not excuse behavior like that. Bear-: Well, I must be off. I rarely get out much any longer, but I have enjoyed myself here this night. I wish you all good things in your life. Be what you are. Bear- waves Mastiff: Be well, Bear rabbit_: bye Bear, Sir aMstrMind: saying someone is a 'gorean master' and is free to do as he pleases with his slave does not excuse what is in his heart. cherry{Pa: be well Master Bear kami{MF}: Master Bear, kamira wishes you and yours well Master. TheKttN: nice to have met you Bear.:) shyla{LR}: be well Master Bear Bear-: And you KttN. Bear-: Heel, sasha. rabbit_: i never said He was Gorean Sir...none of my Owners have embraced that particular kink sasha{Bea heels sasha{Bea waves kami{MF}: night sasha TheKttN: bye sasha:) Mastiff: well, I dont consider myself a "kink"< /p> aMstrMind: rabbit: I didn't say he was gorean either, but you tried to excuse his behavior by saying he was a sadist. Mastiff stands kami{MF} peeks at Master Mastiff: Goreans, I wish you well...and goodnight to all rabbit_: He is a sadist...and over the years ...as the edge got pushed farther and farther out...well...it happens Mastiff: come, wench cherry{Pa: be well Master Mastiff ariel^ shudders kami{MF}: Yes Master TheKttN: good night:) Mastiff an kami kami{MF} follows sasha_: Kitten again you have brought an opportunity for the community to share shyla{LR}: be well Master Matiff sasha_: thank you sis kami{MF}: goodnight everyone :) Gam: be well Mastiff TheKttN hugs sasha cherry{Pa: i must go, i have children to get up for school, be well everyone sasha_: smiling.... contriversy is always an opportunity to show your wisdom or lack of it Gam: be well cherry sasha_: it is just the way of life Kahonez waves buhbye rabbit_: i enjoyed
most of the discussion tonight...thanks again to the ops and such...and
tsk tsk to the evil mongers that attempted to bring personal conflict
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