Estate Training
Speakers: Flagg, Soulhuntr, SirC
June 14, 1998
info@the-estate.com

Raven^: "Estate Training" is described by its creators as a study of the ramifications, pros, and cons of cooperative training between Dominant peers, in a tightly knit situation. Not only is the training of the individual submissives open for discussion, but also the methods of handling multiple authority figure situations, and obligation management.

Raven^: What can it mean to real life D/s relationships? How does this new approach to training differ from classical methods? Is it right for you? Please join us and the founders of Estate Training to discuss their method.

Raven^: Ladies and Gentlemen, may I present, SoulHuntr, Flagg and SirC

Soulhuntr waves

Flagg: :Steps back and allows Soulhunter to take the podium:

Soulhuntr: Ok .... I'll take a moment here to introduce us briefly....

Soulhuntr: The Estate as currently constituted is the union of three independant houses, in the classical sense of the word...

Soulhuntr: First, and by far the prettiest is SirC ... a female dominant

Flagg: :Wolf whistle:

Soulhuntr: Then comes Flagg, who some of you may know as Matt in TES and NYC circles.

Flagg: :Bows:

Soulhuntr: And finally myself, Soulhuntre to many, and Ken to a few :)

Soulhuntr: Each of us train and own R/T submissives, for what that is worth to those who keep track :)

Soulhuntr: Together, we are "The Estate" ... an entity that is a union of our collective authority...

Soulhuntr: If you need an analogy, think of the legal entity of an Incorporation. The Estate acts independantly, guided by this Troika.

Soulhuntr: You will notice that I have deliberatly left off any sort of resume of real time credentials ... there is far too much of that, in our opinion, in the community today. You may judge us, if you wish to, by what we say, and those we train :)

Soulhuntr: I am gonna turn over to Flagg, who will expand a little more on what the estate anctually is by nature...

Soulhuntr points at Flagg

Flagg: :Steps forward to podium:

Flagg: As was mentioned- the union of three houses. the word "houses" is used VERY specifically.

Flagg: Each of us , independent of the others, keeps a structure which involves multiple submissive training in our own style, with our own goals.

Flagg: But we have found that our styles, goals, and primarily philosophy are cohesive- creating a whole bigger than the sum of it's parts.

Flagg: Each of us are capable of viewing the Estate as a whole to be "Bigger" than ourselves independantly-

Flagg: As even a general still sees the country as more important than himself.

Flagg: I believe Soul had some notes on what the goals of this unholy union might be... :Smiles, and steps back:

Soulhuntr smiles

Soulhuntr: Ok ... goals .. in other words .. what are we doing this for?

Soulhuntr: It comes down to this .... everyone in the d/s community hears about 'schools' and styles, we hear about european training...we hear about 'japanese' submission...we have rumors of schools, and roissy like buildings in the woods....yet ... when we look ... we come up empty.

Soulhuntr: After some discussion amongst ourselves.... we decided that coherent training is important.... that a style, a consistent style...

Soulhuntr: of training and evaluation is something the three of us would value ... it would improve our lives.

Soulhuntr: So that is the goal really ....

Soulhuntr: A coherent, stable, and far reaching style of training ... something that we can each be proud of....

Soulhuntr: hopefully, the style may appeal to others....

Soulhuntr: In theory ... an estate trained submissive is something that will fit in in any situation in the community...the training itself will have value.

Soulhuntr: If the myths that circulate in the community, of the schools and the houses, the trainers and the hidden 'estates' all lead to dead ends...then perhapse it is time for someone to build it :)

Soulhuntr: Those are the goals... but the choices of what estate training, and who we have the rules and standards we do ... the things that shaped it once we decided what to build :)

Soulhuntr: Those are things SirC can answer ...

Soulhuntr hands over to SirC< /p>

Sir C steps forward:

SirC: Each of us appreciated that our combined recources-

SirC: Time, resources, energy, talent, expertise...could be better utilized if we were willing to share them.. with not only each other, but the people who submit to us.

SirC: The community environment established by our combined efforts..provides oppurtunities for us to establish a more neutral perspective...we feel it makes our training not specifically to serve "Me", but to offer exemplary service in it's own right.

SirC: It also provides our people a community of peers who share a singlar frame of reference...and offers them the support and stability of an immersive environment.

SirC: it makes a uniformity of purpose and facility- any of us can work with and train any member of the three houses consituting the Estate.

sassy-IP: Okay folks, we are going to Queue now...if you have a question (?) or comment (!) pls type ? or ! and we will put your name in line

sassy-IP: {wolf}MW GA pls

{wolf}MW: Where are you located, what is the fee....is it live in ?

{wolf}MW: done

Soulhuntr: We are spread out across NJ (me) and NY (Flagg and SirC) ...

sassy-IP: Queue: sassy-IP <asking for another>, sasha, xandria

Soulhuntr: as for a fee... no ....there is no fee for those we train.... we will of course use trainee to perform useful tasks...during their stay .. but this is not a professional for profit endeavor.

Soulhuntr: done

{wolf}MW: (thank you)

sassy-IP: What are the psychological ramifications of what they do to an individual?

Sir_C: By psyche ramifications... we mean to maximize the potiential of each trainee... beyond service to their "lover"... this takes service beyond a question of "Because I love you"... and takes it to a level of skilled, self assured individuial, who submits because they choose to, and do it well.

Sir_C: By serving all three drastically different dominants, they know that they can serve anyone they choose.

Sir_C: done.

sassy-IP: thank-you SirC :)

sasha-: What are the criterior for deciding how you want to train each sub what are the goals on individual basis and do you as a group evaluate the submissives? What would decide you to train a sub & what would be reasons not to even if they expressed great desire.

Flagg: :Steps forward:

Soulhuntr watches Flagg frame an answer :)

Flagg: We do have certain standards when selecting trainees.

Flagg: By evaluating the specific talents and inclinations of an applicant..we find that most people have strengths which can be refined to a position or job.

Sir_C: The training which each servant receives consists of the basic protocalls, rules and requirements of the estate.

Sir_C: If they show a talent, it's our respnsibility as trainers to help the trainee explore and exploit their own strengths.

Sir_C: As a group, we do evaluate each trainee.

Sir_C: The different perspectives and strengths of each trainer add to building a stronger framework, suited to the strengths and needs of the servant.

Sir_C: each applicant must be interviewed and evaluated. Many applicants may not be suited to the pressures of the situation.

Sir_C: done.

sasha-: thank you

<xandria`> i was wondering what each of their training styles are, and specialites in training

Soulhuntr steps forward

Soulhuntr: For myself ... my specialties tend to be in what one cwould consider companionship training... the ability to live with an owner for a extended period, and be useful, without intruding.... picking up nuances... knowing when they will expect you to volunteer a service, and when you should just stay in the background.

Soulhuntr: My style tends to be based, as is much of my actions, on eastern ideas.

Soulhuntr points to SirC

Soulhuntr: your next?

Sir_C: attention to detail, consistency, patience and concentration.

Soulhuntr watches SirC come forward

Sir_C: A strict obediance training... listen, perform... and perform well.

_Flagg_: :Steps: forward:

_Flagg_: representation, etiquette, presentation... a sort of a finishing school.

_Flagg_: it has to be done, it has to be done well :nods to Sir C:... and it has to be done with an elegance and prescision which the Estate would be proud to have representing us.

_Flagg_: in short... be VERY polite.

RCrop: How have you codified/summarized your methodologies/tec hniques so that each of you is 'reading from the same page' so to speak, or is it more idiosyncratic or even ad hoc?

Soulhuntr steps forward

Soulhuntr: Fortunately, most of us, and most of our submissives are computer professionals...so we have the technology to maintain an real time "book" of standards and commentary....this not only allows us to work from the same rules and so on... but to annotate them with thoughts and ideas, allowing it to evolve...in addition, it allows us to discuss those we are training, keeping notes so that we will each always know progress.

RCrop nods. Thank you.

anima: While each of you, as dominants, gets the perk of saying you have many subs, and they're all beautifully behaved, what do the subs get? A certificate? Networked? Emotional psychosis? Do you "place" them? How many people have actually completed your training? (I mean no disrespect.) I haven't seen any of you answering to the effect of what you do on the person - I see you emulating some sort of Roissy, and cranking out product. This

_Flagg_: :Raises eyebrow:

_Flagg_: "Gets" many subs?

anima: Clarification: you get the perk of saying you're part of an organized effort to train submissives...implying plural.

_Flagg_: we are training people who WISH to be trained in this fashion, for their own reasons.

anima: That doesn't answer for your organization's responsiblity for their mental health.

_Flagg_: the submissive can complete a training which will serve them well in any service.

_Flagg_: The responsibility of each trainer to the trainees is a very personal one. this is not boot camp.

anima apologizes if she sounds harsh.

_Flagg_: people come to us because they seek the strength and expertise which we provide.

_Flagg_: Done.

margaret_: What do you Doms get out of it?

_Flagg_: For myself... the chance to perfect my art. Soulhuntre?

Soulhuntr: ::thinks:: For me....I get ... well, for one, I get the use of a larger pool of talented people who meet my standards ....

Soulhuntr: ::smiles:: seriously, there is a joy in training... if we did not genuinely enjoy doing it, then

sassy-IP laughs, i thought you were gonna say a larger paddle <pays to read ALL of the post>

Soulhuntr: there is no compensationt hat would help. It is much liek teachers in any other area.

Soulhuntr: SirC?

Sir_C: The oppurtunity and impetus to surround myself who wish to improve themselves, and to refine myself as a dominant.

Sir_C: done.

Ssolara: Will you be training submissives of both sexes, and will you be defining that training to bottoms as well? I'd also like to ask if you plan to get endorsement from any of the weel known/respected organizations...Black Rose, TES.

Ssolara: Could you also explain..."get the use of"? done

Soulhuntr Smiles

Soulhuntr: Ok....

Soulhuntr: last first ..

Soulhuntr: get the use of would be just that .... I enjoy having submissives around .. I enjoy them doing the types of tasks I train them to do ...

Soulhuntr: so by training them to do those tasks, they do them for me, and I dont have to :)

Soulhuntr: As for the other part...

Soulhuntr: Yes, we train both sexes....

Soulhuntr: Some of the training could be extended to bottoms ... but the vast majority of our training is about service, and refining the desire to serve...

Soulhuntr: by my personal definition of a 'bottom', it would not really apply...... but the term bottom is not a constant one ... so someone who considers themselves a bottom may decide we are what they need...

Soulhuntr: As for the endorsments ... no :) If they come ... I guess that would be nice... but those groups are, no offense, by their nature

Soulhuntr: fractionary and fragmented .. this is a highly focused effort, and I am sure we will not be pleasing to enough of those groups memberships to win any such endorsment ... even if it carried any value.

Soulhuntr opens florr to SirC/Flagg

Sir_C: the three of us are members of TES, have presented at TES, and have learned from both organizations, and people at large in the community. I do not feel that it is the place of an organization to endorse a specific philosophy of dominance... nor do I feel they would. it's exclusionary to their other members.

_Flagg_: By seeking the approval, sanction or sponsorship of an organization, we place ourselves in the power of such an organization.

_Flagg_: Done.

Ssolara nods. I'm in agreement with that. Thankyou ~

psyche^ would like to know where do you get perspective candidates,,,,,,do submissives seek out the training of the Estate or do Masters submit applications to you in the name of their submissive s? And,,,,,how long typcially,,does this training last?

Soulhuntr steps up...

Soulhuntr: Well, where we get them depends on who they are ... it gets a little complex ... so I'll try and go slow :)

Soulhuntr: Someone training under the estate will fall into one of 3 categories...

Soulhuntr: 1) They wish to train under "the estate" for their own purposes. To improve themselves, to attract a potential owner, or they are owned and their owner wishes the training.

Soulhuntr: People in this category ALWAYS seek us out.

Soulhuntr: 2) They approach one of us individually, and wish to train under us specifically, for the same purposes as above....

Soulhuntr: while this category trainee is not specifically under the estate .. it is a requirment of anyone I train that they meet estate standards .. so they wind up in estate training, for me :)

Soulhuntr: Category 2 types differ .. soemtimes they find us... sometimes we find them...

Soulhuntr: 3) Someone who wishes to be owned, personally, by one of us.... again, anyone in my collar, as my property will meet estate standards if they wish to retain my collar....

_Flagg_ nods

Soulhuntr: generally, type '3' folks are found by the dom :)

Soulhuntr: But that changes among the three of us...

Soulhuntr: as for time period...

Soulhuntr: What are the goals .. in other words .. how polished do they wish to be ... and can they live in? Or just do an hour hear and there ... can they do weekends and so on?

Soulhuntr: Live in, full time, to be what I would consider acceptably trained in the basics ... 6 months or so.

Soulhuntr: Adjust up or down :)

Soulhuntr looks to Flag and SirC for other comments

_Flagg_: :Both nod: You covered it.

_Flagg_: done.

{wolf}MW: will there be a difference now in your eyes between a "normal" (ewwww word usage) and a pro sub? One that can give the same depth to anyone?? I'm an alpha personality, I won't , can't submit to just anyone who thinks they can just demand it. this is in responce to this statement: <Sir_C> this takes service beyond a question of "Because I love you"... (I think I missed a valid point here or missunderstood, clarify please) and Now I'm seeing a trend

*** _Flagg_ is now known as Sir_C

{wolf}MW: (more) but will wait for that to be dealt with first

Sir_C: First: I expect service not because I "demand" it...

Sir_C: I expect service because A.) Someone wishes to serve. and B. I feel I can provide the energy, knowledge and technical skill necessary to form the dominant / sub relationship

Sir_C: in an estate structure, one cannot be "in love" with everyone who is involved. (Either trainers or subs)

Sir_C: I would say the goal is to be able to serve anyone you would choose to submit to, with the same level of service. if the dominant you choose is not worth your all, why would you serve them?

Sir_C: done.

RCrop: Do you allow visitors to view your operations or specific training sessions?

*** Sir_C is now known as _Flagg_

_Flagg_: Ordinarily? No.

_Flagg_: We play in public, and there is a website in the works which will provide... a more intimate view of the inner workings of the estate- but no guided tours.

_Flagg_: done.

RCrop: I understand. Thank you.

sassy-IP: there seems to be a concern that you are in this for "free sex" i'm not getting this impression, can you please elaborate on what the training consists of? i understand that could be a lengthy answer, pls feel free to summarize

sassy-IP: I'd like to make a note here, after xandria we will be going to the 'open floor' format

Sir_C: while sexual enticement is a powerful motivator, I do not use that as my SOLE motivator...

Sir_C: my relationship with each sub is as unique as the dynamic between us.

Sir_C: i would not have sex with someone simply because they were in my service, or as a method of training.

Sir_C: Done.

sassy-IP: hmmmm

xandria`: You talked of Estate standards and a submissive meeting them, was wondering what the standards are or do they vary from submissive to submissive done

*** Sir_C is now known as _Flagg_

_Flagg_: :Steps forward:

_Flagg_: Being standards, they don't change submissive to submissive...

_Flagg_: But the standards of Body Training, Intent Training, Service, communication and protocall (Estate training) ..

_Flagg_: Are simply used to measure what things the trainee excells at, or conv ersely, needs work in.

_Flagg_: they are an excellent uniform unit of measurement. Those who excell should be accredited for their effort, and have it recognized.

_Flagg_: Soulhuntre? Sir C? :Steps back:

Soulhuntr steps up...

Soulhuntr: Standards ... this comes down to a pretty simple idea ...

Soulhuntr: Someone who is estate trained should never have to SAY they are ... it will show through...

Soulhuntr: that means you need to be as good as those who have come before, and those who will come after... it is, collectively, all our names on the finished product as it were... so we all need to be happy that you are what you say you are :)

Soulhuntr: That turn of the hip .. or the angle of your head when you kneel, these things will mark you.

Soulhuntr: done

sassy-IP: ok folks, we're going to open the floor now, pls feel free to talk amongst yourselves...Soulhuntr, Flagg and SirC will be staying a while longer

anima: Do ya train big girls, or only lil' skinny ones? (g)

{wolf}MW: may I address one more question to Soulhuntr?

sassy-IP bounces a basketball off anima's head

_Flagg_: :Sits down and puts his boots up:

xandria`: good question anima

Soulhuntr waves

*** _Flagg_ is now known as Sir_C

Soulhuntr: Ok .... want me to stab at an answer?

Soulhuntr: :)

anima: Stab away.

anima: I like blood.

elektra^: i have something to ask

maurissa wrinkles her nose.

Soulhuntr chuckles

Soulhuntr: As regards the "big girl" question, for personal ownership it is not my preference ... but for estate training I dont see why it should be a primary factor..

Sir_C: Size is Not an issue in merit. If the aplicant has merit and is willing to be held to a Estate standard of performance and presentaztion will be accepted

Soulhuntr: remember, estate trainees are NOT destined for the personal ownership of us ehtree... so as long as the dedication and ability is there .. that is usually enough.

{wolf}MW: [21:38] <Soulhuntr> 3) Someone who wishes to be owned, personally, by one of us.... again, anyone in my collar, as my property will meet estate standards if they wish to retain my collar.... Would you collar a trainee? Do you collar all trainee's as under the estate structure group. If you grew quite fond of a trainee, would you switch that to a private collar? And also, what does a collar mean to you personally?

*** Sir_C is now known as _Flagg_

Soulhuntr: wolf - would "I" switch it? No... I wouldnt, the trainee in question would have to request such a change. And a estate trainee .... I would wait till the finished their estate training. It is common to develop a strong bond with a trainer .. it

Soulhuntr: would not be useful to allow that bond to falsly drive someone to a personal collar.

{wolf}MW: thank you...

_Flagg_: IF we may... Sir C and i would like to interject to wolf that of course there IS a bond... but a bond is not love.

sassy-IP: you say it's common to develop a strong bond w/a trainer and i can see that but do you ever, as a trainer, develop a strong bond w/a trainee?

{wolf}MW: I must go afk, but will keep logging, thank you all so much for your information..please be sure to leave us a web page or email addy for more info..and Flagg, yes, understood and accepted..

_Flagg_: estate training offers training without the entanglements or complicationbs that a romantic relationship often presents.

{wolf}MW: A nice clear difference then, yes, indeed...thank you

Soulhuntr: But yes, ato train someone, you must get to know them, this often leads to a bond ... a specific type of bond.

sassy-IP: pls feel free to join in, anyone, if you have questions or comments ....we don't bite and if we do, it's IRC, it won't hurt

_Flagg_: for contact, and further info: info@the-estate.com

anima: Training without that bond, and the related emotions bdsm brings out...

anima: Unusual. But a very cool concept.

{wolf}MW: it would certainly be easy to remain friends at least after

Soulhuntr holds up a sign that says feel free to email "info@the-estate.com" - and soulhuntre@soulhuntre.com if that doesnt work :)

_Flagg_: The emotions BDSM brings out are incredibly intense, and present... but they are not necessarily romance.

elektra^: in order to be accepted into this program is their an initial meeting (team meeting) and discuss the prospective trainee present

xandria`: when someone comes to you seeking training is there sources they can talk to if they wish to understand better the experinces they will go throught?

anima: Flagg: I'm biased, and naive in that regard. I defer to ppl who know more than me. They're inseperable to me.

_Flagg_: There is an interview process.

elektra^: with all present

Soulhuntr: Wolf - your comment on friendship is a good one....

_Flagg_: Again... contact info@the-estate.com... there will be one on one interviews, and a group interview. Online first is usaually the best way to begin.

Soulhuntr: someone who we get to know this well, who completes the training honorably, and continues to do us credit will always be bound to us in a way ...

_Flagg_: If there is a problem w/ email, try matt@pfmc.net.

Soulhuntr: the closeness wont fade .. they can call on us for aid and advice .. how could it be otherwise?

_Flagg_: :nods:

TM`sKttN: can i say something without sounding wimpy... it was something Raven and i were talking about.

_Flagg_: 'Course.

Soulhuntr: Shoot!

TM`sKttN: hehe

sassy-IP: KttN? wimpy??? hahahaha

TM`sKttN: okay... it is about Kimiko

_Flagg_: i didn't do it!

Soulhuntr: Shoot :)

TM`sKttN: we were saying as a reflection on you Soulhuntr... you must be very proud.

TM`sKttN: that was it. but isn't that partially what this is about.

Soulhuntr: ::smiles:: I am, she is turning out well.

KimiD: ::smiles and blushes:: thank you

TM`sKttN: seeing you though her eyes allowed me to understand more.:)

sassy-IP: before y'all leave, i'd like to say thank-you, Soulhuntr, Flagg and SirC. Y'all have done a wonderful job and are appreciated for taking your time to talk to us tonight

KimiD: thank you Kttn. :)

_Flagg_: :Bows: Thank you kindly.

Soulhuntr: Thanks IP :)

sassy-IP: <--- sassy :)

Soulhuntr Holds up "Flagg is people too" card

Sir_C: Thanks.

TM`sKttN: thank you all :)

elektra^: ok if after the submissive is accepted and all 3 feel that he/she will be able to handle the "pressures" and one or all 3 of you discover that this sub cannot handle these pressures when already into the program what happens to the sub then, are they asked to leave, stay longer...what??

Sir_C: After group discussion to ascertain the nature of the problem and possible solutions... as a group, we would evaluate the best possible remedy, which may include release from service.

elektra^: but would this meeting include the submissive to come to a sort of a solution

Sir_C: depends on the nature of the problem.

Sir_C: they would be given the opportunity to speak on their behalf.

elektra^: ok Soulhuntr also stated that each submissive would be better than the next

Sir_C: Actually, "As good as the last"

elektra^: doesnt that mean that the program would have to be changed for improvement to meet this statement

Sir_C: The whole goal of the program is to maximise potential for everyone involved... that is dynamic and evolutionary in and of itself.

Soulhuntr: Yeah .. it was "As good as those before, and those after"

elektra^: thats right but if each person is to excel more than the last something has to change or improve to beat the last requirments

KimiD: good evening all

KimiD: good night Sir and Flagg

sassy-IP: g'nite KimiD

KimiD: may I be excused my Lord?

_Flagg_: Good Night, Kimi.

TM`sKttN: night Kimi:)

Soulhuntr: Yup :)

KimiD: thank you :)

_Flagg_: Good night from Sir.

elektra^: hehe but if you say yup! what does that mean??? yup...... :)

Soulhuntr: Elektra ..... each person will be as good as they wish to become .. we can take them a long way ....

Soulhuntr: ::Thinks:: think of it like the military ....

elektra^: eep!

Soulhuntr: How much does each person in there excel?< /font>

elektra^: it was stated this wasnt boot camp

Soulhuntr: Its an analogy silly :)

Soulhuntr: My point is ...

elektra^: i know but i excell to my ability

_Flagg_: calm down... it's not. He's talking about the potential of each individual.

Soulhuntr: every trainee will become as good as they wish to become, and can become....

_Flagg_: No room for improvement?

elektra^: because if i didn't what worth would i be to anyone let aylone myself

sassy-IP: you can only train to someone's full potential, everyone is different and i would think the training, although the same in most respects, is different for those involved

Soulhuntr: if they wish to be able to represent us, then they must acheive certain standards....if they exceed those .. thats good too :)

_Flagg_: i know I continue to strive for ways to improve myself...

anima: Like what tho?

anima: What standard?

elektra^: what standards??

Soulhuntr: A simple example would be all the physical positions, protocols of manner and speech.

Soulhuntr: Some will do them to a phenominal degree , others will only barely exceed what we consider good enough.

_Flagg_: Attitude, manners, concentration...Attention to detail, attentiveness, proactivity...

menega: thank you to the speakers and good night everyone

sassy-IP: i have a silly ? pls

jupiter-: How often have the Marketplace trilogy been compared to your establishment by outsiders?

Soulhuntr: Shoot :)

xandria: no disrespect but sounds like a very old fashioned finishing school

Soulhuntr: jupiter - by outsiders? i have no idea :)

sassy-IP: do you ever 'pre-judge' a sub only to find out that what you thought wouldn't make it, actually excelled beyond your expectations?

jupiter-: Thank you, was curious.

elektra^: i dont mean to be disrespectful, im only seeking answers

Soulhuntr: xandria - no disrespect taken .. a old fashioned, kink friendly finishing school :)

_Flagg_: yep. in ways, it can be like a finishing school... and a dojo... and a military unit...

_Flagg_: Yep. I love to be surprised by excellence.

sassy-IP: but has this actually happened, Flagg?

sassy-IP: to you or any of the others?

Soulhuntr: sassy - the dedication one can put forth is always hard to judge .. potential is much easier to see... so I often know what someone CAN do .. I am often surprised at their ability to actually pull up the strength to do it.

_Flagg_: Absolutely. one example is an actress who, much to my surprise and her own, found a deep satsfaction in objectification. totally unexpected.

sassy-IP: i would think it has to be exhilerating to watch a sub who just thinks she can't do it, only to find her strength and not only accomplish but to excel

_Flagg_: It always is. breathtaking at times. watching someone go beyond what she thought were her limitations is a source of pride for all involved.

sassy-IP smiles

sassy-IP: it appears to be winding down

_Flagg_: yep.

sassy-IP: i know it is late for y'all

sassy-IP: once again, thank-you so much for speaking tonight

_Flagg_: time to retire, i think.

sassy-IP: the logs will be on the submission site probably by tuesday

TM`sKttN: thank you all again:)

_Flagg_: info@the-estate.com, or matt@pfmc.net.

_Flagg_: Thank you.

Soulhuntr: soulhuntre@soulhuntre.com

Soulhuntr: Later all!

*** _Flagg_ is now known as Sir_C

TM`sKttN: night Soulhuntr:)

Sir_C: Night all

sassy-IP: good night :)

TM`sKttN: night SirC and Flagg:)

Sir_C: night TM'sKttn from both

---