BDSM and Childhood Abuse - #MDOM on the undernet
Speaker: DebiJean
December 21, 1997 #MDOM on the undernet.
Moderators: poenkitn and Raven^SB

<Raven^SB^> Ladies and Gentlemen, good evening and welcome to #MDOM, tonight we are going to discuss the subject of BDSM and child abuse. Please adhere to the regular discussion rules, please refrain from greeting publically as well as talking while the presenter is speaking, we will open the floor when the guest speaker is done.

<Raven^SB^> poenkitten is tonights moderator and DebiJean is the guest speaker

[poenkitn] Good evening...Tonights subject has touched many of us

[poenkitn] It is a very painful subject but one that many Doms and Subs face daily...

[poenkitn] DebiJean Asher is one who has had to deal with this ...as have many of us...and she is our presenter tonight...

[poenkitn] Debijean

<DebiJean> Good Evening.

<DebiJean> I'd like to start by thanking all of you who have come here tonight. I know that with Christmas only a few days away, many are rushing to get their final shopping done (guess I'd better start!) And, being that Monday Night Football is on as well, I appreciate that you are taking time out to attend.

<DebiJean> I have spoken with many of you in channel, about child abuse and how it has affected your lives, and noticed that it almost seems to be a common denominator in the BDSM channels. I have seen it here, and in #Torture... the two channels I spend the most time in.

<DebiJean> Not everyone has gone through it, but there are many of us who have. I think that it's important that we are aware of this, and that we know that we have friends out there that we can turn to for help and guidance when we are at a loss as to how to deal with the past.

<DebiJean> Some that I have spoken with have found a way to forgive, and have put their feelings aside in order to make the family unit stronger. Some have come to terms with it, and have healed... actually to the point that they are friends with those that abused them many years ago.

<DebiJean> And then there are those of us who harbor feelings of rage, and resentment... that will seemingly never forgive, or forget. Suffering to this day still from the emotional, and sometimes physical, abuse... still searching for answers and trying to find a way to heal, and put it all behind them.

<DebiJean> I happen to fall into this last category.

<DebiJean> Many of you here tonight know me, or at least know of me. I am using this platform tonight, to "come out" so to speak, with the hope that I can shed some of my fears and feelings of inadequacy... and perhaps help myself to obtain my goals of reaching a state where I can consider rl relationships a possibility.

<DebiJean> I would like you people to participate, because I feel that it is the only way that these feelings can be released, and answers found. I will give you my background history, and tell you how it has affected my life, and then tell you the steps that I am taking in my quest for wellness.

<DebiJean> At that point I will encourage discussion amongst the group to see what others are doing to deal with their situations, and will of course answer any questions that you may have of me.

<DebiJean> HISTORY:

<DebiJean> I was a young child when abuse came... yet old enough to know that I enjoyed self-stimulation. I believe that all little girls go through that period in their lives when it just feels good to have contact... be it on a bicycle, sliding down a hand rail, sitting on a teeter-totter... whatever it may be.

<DebiJean> When I discovered this, I became instantly hooked on masturbation. This raised flags of horror in the mind of my mother, who decided that I was not going to participate in this type of activity, regardless of cost.

<DebiJean> At first it was threats... the basic talk of going blind, growing hair on the hands, going insane... all the old wives tales that were intended to scare children out of any sort of self-pleasure. But I wasn't buying it. Then it became worse.

<DebiJean> I was caught "playing" again, and this time I was forced to do it in front of her... while she made comments to me about how God frowns upon the act, and that I was surely going to Hell for my actions. Nope, still didn't get to me.

<DebiJean> Then it became punishment time. I started getting verbal abuse on a regular basis. I was her "little queer"; the oddball who couldn't control herself... the one who was "possessed" by the devil himself. This coming from a woman who was sleeping with various boyfriends...

<DebiJean> Next it became physical. I had my hands held against a hot stove... in order to keep me from touching myself. I had burns on my hands, to the extent that I had to wear gloves with Vaseline for several weeks so that they could heal... at the time that was thought to be the cure for burns... my god how it hurt.

<DebiJean> Then the fateful night... She had me masturbate with Vicks on my fingers... a punishment intended to make me sore so that I wouldn't want to masturbate. I still remember the burn...

<DebiJean> Her current boyfriend at the time came over that night and during some discussion about what had happened, I was called out by mother and told to lift my skirt and show him how red I was from my constant playing. She didn't tell him of the Vicks, just that it was from self-stimulation.

<DebiJean> They joked and laughed about it, while I was in tears... so embarrassed that I had exposed myself to him...and I ran to my room screaming that I hated her. The two of them went upstairs and screwed their brains out, while I cried myself to sleep.

<DebiJean> The next morning I awoke with a strange feeling in my throat. I tried to speak, and nothing came out. I tried harder and started to choke. Every time I tried to make a sound, my throat would close up and I'd gag...

<DebiJean> HOW IT HAS AFFECTED MY LIFE:

<DebiJean> It has been almost 36 years now, and I still haven't spoken another word. The only memories I have of my voice, are as that young child... most vividly screaming I hate you.

<DebiJean> For the rest of the time that I lived at home, I was told that I was evil and selfish. That I was just trying to punish her by not talking, and that she hadn't done anything to deserve it. I went to many therapists, both speech and Psychiatric, but to no avail.

<DebiJean> I have struggled with this handicap for what seems like forever... the inability to communicate my thoughts has been stifling. I write everything with pad and pen, and only express about 1/3 of what I'm thinking...people just don't have the time or patience to wait for me to literally spell it out for them.

<DebiJean> Then came IRC. This has been a salvation for me. I have had voice, on a real time basis. I can YELL if I want, and I can keep up with the pack. People listen to me, and hear my thoughts. It is wonderful! Actually, it has been my paradise.

<DebiJean> The down side of this is that I have withdrawn from the real world. I just didn't want to put up with all of the BS I go through on a daily basis anymore... not when I could come back here and be "whole".

<DebiJean> I have kept all of this a secret, because I didn't want people here to see me as anything but normal. There was just no reason for anyone to know my "crippled" self. This all worked fine for awhile, until people started pushing to see me in rl...

<DebiJean> I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I didn't want to bring the pain and suffering into my paradise. I wanted to keep them separate.

<DebiJean> STEPS I AM TAKING TO HEAL:

<DebiJean> This revelation to all of you tonight, is a step towards overcoming my fears and insecurities, and an attempt to start reaching out... looking towards a time when I can be as happy with people in rl as I am online. It will be a long road, but I've started down it.

<DebiJean> Thanks to two ladies in our IRC community, who mean everything to me, I have pursued alternative treatments, including acupuncture and Tai Chi to help me become more at peace with myself, and to build self-confidence. This is an effort to improve my condition, without the continual increase in medications (anti-depressants) that I have been on for so long.

<DebiJean> HOW THIS RELATES TO BDSM:

<DebiJean> Now, you all may be asking yourself, "what does all of this have to do with BDSM?"

<DebiJean> Well, I have never forgiven mother for this...and my hatred has stayed with me all these years. I started fantasizing about torture at that time, and she was always the victim. I am talking about extreme torture... fatal stuff. I coupled this with the very act that she was so violently against, and found that my revenge was in feeling pleasure while thinking of her pain.

<DebiJean> As time went by, and I became an adult, my fantasies were well rooted... I think I know of every possible torture now... I just changed the victim from always being mother, to being a generic female. I write very graphic torture stories... and that has been a release for me.

<DebiJean> I consider myself to be a Sadist, more than a Domme... though I have become more attuned to the D/s lifestyle since I have been frequenting #Mdom.

<DebiJean> One comment I heard from someone here in channel was that the past had made her the person she is, and she is happy with herself... so she has no ill feelings.

<DebiJean> In one respect I agree with that. I am happy with my sexual desires, and enjoy sharing them with others (though it has been mainly just cyber). But in the other respect, it has cost me dearly most of my life... that I haven't been able to forgive or forget... yet.

<DebiJean> I am working hard at freeing myself from that burden of hate.

<DebiJean> Since there are so many in the BDSM community that share abuse as a background, I can't help but think that the abuse itself contributed to the shaping of our desires... sort of a defense against the pain.

<DebiJean> That since we couldn't escape it, we would learn to love it... therefore taking away it's power as a weapon. It is through this, that I think many have been able to forgive their abusers. That they recognize this as a foundation for a lifestyle that they enjoy, and therefore don't harbor resentment.

<DebiJean> There could be a danger in this, if they want to pass that "gift" along to their own children. We shouldn't rationalize ourselves into thinking it is OK to abuse our own children because "we didn't turn out so bad". That is what makes abuse continue for generation after generation. I would li ke to hear your views on that.

<DebiJean> DISCUSSION:

<DebiJean> At this time I would like to encourage others to bring up any experiences that they would like to share...and what they have done to resolve their inner conflicts from the abuse.

* LordSaber would like to share his thoughts

* summerain would too

* Raven^SB^ smiles

<Raven^SB^> Thank you DebiJean

<DebiJean> Yes

<poenkitn] Thank you DebiJean....shall we open the floror with LordSaber

<Raven^SB^> yes LordSaber please do then Summerain

<brandypet> Thank you Dj. I love you.

<LordSabe> Thank you

* shalimar raises her hand again

<Raven^SB^> after summerain shalimar

<DebiJean> I will stick around, for anyone who wishes to talk with me.

<LordSaber> First of all, I salute DJ's courage in talking about the abuse she suffered...

[poenkitn] then Brandy

<LordSaber> I listen to the hell she endured and I think that what I endured as a kid wasn't anywhere near as bad..

<despista> hi all

<LordSaber> I grew up in a middle-class family in LA..my father died when I was 10..my mom never recovered from that..and basically I became the center of her life..also she became more & more meotionally abusive to me as the years went on

<LordSaber> she would criticize most of what I did..tell me my friends didn't really want to be around me..etc. She in a lot of ways tried to "dominate" my life..for a number of years I was afraid that I got my Dominant tendencies from her..

<LordSaber> also too..because of her constant criticisms of me & any efforts I made to try & make friends, I learned not to trust her..not to trust anybody..

<LordSaber> There are times I find it soooo ironic that I now am involved in something that requires so much trust!!

<LordSaber> What I found over the years was that I always assumed the worst in others..I do that now even..and it's a demon I struggle with..

<LordSaber> also too..my mom was the classic "doormat"..because of that, for a long time even after I got involved in SM..I wouldn't even consider D/s cause the only model I had was my mom..who consented to being a "nonconsnesual doormat"

<LordSaber> It's only recently I've finally realized it was her own issues..that a true D/s submissive is strong..not someone like my mom was..

<LordSaber> How am I trying to heal??? Welllll.....

<LordSaber> I've gone thru years of therapy that has been helpful..I curently see a therapist in SF who is SM-friendly..she has been esepcially helpful the last few weeks. A cpl of my old issues flared up w some ppl online..I blew up at a cpl ppl I shouldn't have..felt horrible afterwards..

<LordSaber> And I'm determined not to let that happen again..tho it prolly will..all I can hope is the next time it happens, I'll be better equipped to deal w it..

<LordSaber> Most of the time, I am a nice guy..fun-0loving..as most of you prolly know..but every once in awhile, the old demons surface..it is soooooo damn frustrating..

<LordSaber> I came to realize awhile back..healing is a life-long process...

* poenkitn looks to summerrain

<LordSaber> Sometimes i wonder if I'll ever get to a place where i'll be really happy..but I have to try...

<LordSaber> thank you..

<summerain> okay

[poenkitn] SummerRain

<summerain> throw me in the formerly abused pile with the rest of you... for me... I didn't go through anything near as brutal as DebiJean... I got physical and mental abuse for years though, not only at home but at school, I was an unsocialised child and was the butt of every other kid's jokes... I was the geek/nerd/loser of all time in the schools I went to.

<summerain> For a LONG time it was easier for me to insult and belittle myself than it was to let others do it... hey, no one can insult me better than me right?

<summerain> Anyway... after years of this nasty pattern I started to realise that what I said was in fact whatI thought... so if I called myself fat sutupid and ugly that's what I WAS

<summerain> anyway... I started working to change that, to change the way I talked about and thought of myself... I did a little therapy but found that for me it's my journal that does it... to care enough about myself to spend that half an hour or so a day on being with me and cherishing ME

<summerain> and then one day... not that long ago, I woke up and realised that I loved myself... that me was a damm good person to be. I am NOT stupid, I am NOT ugly and I am NOT fat.

* summerain smiles

<summerain> and like LS said...

<summerain> I had a LOT of doubts when I discovered my submission, I had even MORE when I discovered my addiction to pain,. but as a wise friend said to me... stop analysing and just be

<summerain> done

<blues_pwr> summer exactly !

<summerain> thanks blues :)

* summerain huggles DJ... thanks for speaking hon

<Raven^SB^> poeta who is next?

<shalimar> i am Raven

[poenkitn] Shailmar...you have the stand

<shalimar> thank you

* poenkitn lines them up in the chute

<blues_pwr> summer can i beat you now? lol

<shalimar> i wish to applaud the incredible courage that we have witnessed here this evening.

<Raven^SB^> blue there is a discussion going please respect the speakers

<shalimar> DJ, my heart goes out to you and i wish you all the hope in your quest towards healing, as i do with LS and rain

<shalimar> you have all humbled me...and i thank you for what you have taught me this evening.

<shalimar> i do not have a contribution to make since i did not suffer from abuse. but i am in awe of what i have seen here this evening.

<shalimar> my blessings and thanks to each of you, but particularly DJ

<shalimar> done

* summerain snuggles shalimar... but you LISTENED

[poenkitn] Brandy

* shalimar yes rain listened and learned <g>

<brandypet> Well, I am a sub.

<brandypet> I am not sure how that happened.

<brandypet> I was never particulary aboused.

<brandypet> Abused even.

<brandypet> I have always felt most comfortable being told what to do.

<brandypet> I am by nature a sub.

<brandypet> I dont want responsibility.

<brandypet> I guess that having been a friend of Dj's for such a long time now, I was real proud of her.

<brandypet> She has a LOT of courage to come out with this.

<SirDsPet> Hello Master

<SirDsPet> Hello all

<brandypet> And it seems to me that she needs all of us to support her as she tries to get thru ll of this.

[poenkitn] Umm Raven I think you are next

<Raven^SB^> thank you poeta

<brandypet> I am done.

* poenkitn gets in line behind fawrad

<Raven^SB^> first and foremost I would like to take the opportunity and personally thank you DJ, you are a friend and a very close friend, I know what it took for you to do this tonight

* DebiJean looks to Raven

<DebiJean> thank you

<Raven^SB^> I was abused as a child and abused severely

<Raven^SB^> verbal and physical abuse combined

<Raven^SB^> my father hit me until I was 18 years old on the face, the back, the head you name it

<Raven^SB^> he was always overly possesive of me and would not let me out of his site

<Raven^SB^> I was not permitted make up until my wedding day, nor was I allowed high heeled shoes

<Raven^SB^> My dad found a chapstick once in my school book and for that I've walked around black and blue for two weeks

<Raven^SB^> he was verbally abusing me by calling me names and telling me that I'm not good enough to be his daughter

<Raven^SB^> that I was a lousy student even though my grades were all a's he was constantly ashamed of me, telling me that I'm fat even though I was thin as a toothpick, he was telling me that I'm ugly and that all the other girls are prettier and smarter then me

<Raven^SB^> but today

<Raven^SB^> I face him and we never speak of this

<Raven^SB^> I am angry at my mother who stood by and watched in silence but I face her too with a smile on my face

<Raven^SB^> the pain is numb, it feels like nothing really, it just doesn't hurt anymore

<Raven^SB^> but I keep wondering how it affected my life as a submissive

<Raven^SB^> how the two are connected beats me

<Raven^SB^> I crave pain and humiliation

* poenkitn knows how...but waits her turn

<Raven^SB^> and adore being owned. It is a journey that my husband and I are both travelling hand in hand and are finding out bits and pieces with each new day.

<Raven^SB^> done.

[poenkitn] fawrad

<fawrad> thank you

<fawrad> i was sexually abused for 5 years as a young child by my oldest brother...from the age of 8 on a nightly basis i served him in any way he desired

<fawrad> i learned early that noone was going to step in and rescue me since i had told my mother and she didn't believe me

<fawrad> i turned to drugs to deal with the pain that i was going through

<fawrad> i also was raped twice by my stepfather when i was 14 and again at 16

<fawrad> i built walls around myself to try to protect me..the real me inside

<fawrad> the drugs helped take it all away...for a while

<fawrad> i didn't deal with what had happened to me until i was 21 when i came off the drugs after 11 years

<fawrad> i confronted my family about what had happened to me

<fawrad> my sister admitted that she knew all along what was going on but would not step in...my other brother admitted that he had been abbused too

<fawrad> my mother just cried and went suicidal on me

<fawrad> i have always been the fixer in my family so i fixed it for them...and then turned to me

<fawrad> it has been a long journey and still have some of those walls up to this day

<fawrad> i never thought i was pretty or desirable..so i shunned makeup and all that until rcently

<fawrad> i hid who i was but the hiding is over now...and i know that i am pretty and desirable...also i had never been able to reach an orgasm in all my life with a partner

<fawrad> that is also over now...i have overcome that with the help of one of my bestest friends

<fawrad> i have to face my family on a daily basis...i have learned to forgive them but i won't ever forget

<fawrad> in my profession, what i have been through is a help to my patients and i keep the memories alive in order to do so

<fawrad> done

* LordSaber hugs fawrad

* summerain snuggles rad

* tapestry hugs faw

* fawrad smiles and hugs back

* jupiter- cuddles fawrad close

[poenkitn] Ok My turn

[poenkitn] Everyone here pretty much knows me...I was raised to be a slave by my parents, deliberately, but learned to turn the pain to pleasure in self defense

[poenkitn] Inumerating what they did to me as a child..would take to long, suffice it to say..it weren't fun...but ...there is something that we have not addressed here tonight

[poenkitn] What BDSM has done to HELP us heal...that first time that you say NO and someone stops...God is that empowering to a child who had No ripped from her

* fawrad claps

* summerain NODS to poen!

<summerain> YES!

* karra still doesn't believe it sometimes that someone actually stopped

[poenkitn] Or the first time you pick up a crop or a belt and use it with love and joy with someone who shares that need with you

[poenkitn]A weapon that brought you horror and pain...is now a joy...words that cut you apart are now taken with love and honor

[poenkitn] This is what BDSM does...and I don't think that it is an accident that so many are drawn to it from an abuse background...because it takes what was painful and turns it into something controlled and beautiful

* LordSaber smiles & appluads poen's words

* summerain is applauding and nodding and smiling and practically in tears over here

[poenkitn] I don't think that i will ever forgive my parents...Hell I pissed on my mother's grave after she was buried...and that was empowering...for the first time I c ould do to her what she did to me

* shalimar hugs poen tightly for her incredibly insight and wisdom

[poenkitn] I am not looking for a parent in BDSM...I reparented myself long ago and did not pass that legacy on to my children...I am looking to get involved with the raw emotions that were denied me as a child..to touch the anger and release it in ways that are acceptable and controlled

* softsmile can't believe she fucking forgot about this

* LordSaber sighs..can relate to so much that others here have talked about..

<softsmile> wow poen, I was just thinking about this today

[poenkitn] That is empowerment...for sub, slave and Dom/me alike..to take what has hurt you..an turn it to joy and love

<softsmile> Do you think that BDSM is a way for people who have stopped feeling to start feeling again

<softsmile> that we need that level of intensity?

<summerain> it was for me soft

[poenkitn] You cant Not feel with BDSM...you can try to hide but a Dom or sub is going to draw that from you

<summerain> yeah... it's too easy to hide it or bury it in vanilla

<LordSaber> poenL How very true!!!

[poenkitn] that is the hardest part of this lifestyle...you are forced to feel...to give everything in trust...where you have never been able to trust before and NOT be hurt

<softsmile> god poen, I was just discussing this with Master, the fact that I've been trying to hide and I discovered he is the only person besides my son that I've had feelings for in a very long time

<softsmile> it's really terrifying at times poen

<claudia{A> ai, soft .. i lost feeling for even my

children.

<Bison> poen were you done with your turn? remember everyone, this is supposed to be a moderated discussion

* claudia{A whispers '''sorry Bison"

* summerain was numb for years...

[poenkitn] hell yes...the very people you should have been able to trust tried to destroy you in their own pain...learning to trust is the hardest part...and it is so much easier to trust you with my body before I ever trust you with my heart

[poenkitn] I think the floor goes back to DJ for closure

* softsmile nods knowigly at poen

<karra> ooh... but i had to trust with my heart before i could entrust that person with my body...

* summerain can give her body easily... her heart is another matter

<LordSaber> very true poen

<DebiJean> Thank you poen

[poenkitn] You were taught as a child you could take an awful lot phsyically..it was emotionally that you were vulnerable

<DebiJean> Thank you all again, for being so warm and friendly to me. It has been a pleasure to be here with you, and to know you. I hope that we have all learned something from this that we can use to make our life a little better.

<Kree> please continue pk

[poenkitn] Dj thank you for getting us talking and facing some of this...we all know how painful it was for you..for how painful it is for us to remember and talk

[poenkitn] Ok milk and cookies at DJ house

<DebiJean> hehehe

* softsmile will take a glass of skim mlk, no cookies

<Kree> The channel is open now.....smiles

* fawrad wants more than just milk and cookies

<DebiJean> I will be around for awhile if anyone wants to ask me anything.

<DebiJean> thanks again

* fawrad hugs DJ

<DebiJean> and thanks everyone.

<summerain> you know I hadn't avtually thought about the word No until poen mentioned it... but lordee waspoen ever right about that

* LordSaber takes a deep breath..I almost lost it while I was talking earlier

<Kree> Thank you DJ

<softsmile> ok..since I missed it, who's posting

<DebiJean> for participating

<DebiJean> ineed

<LordSaber> Than you DJ!!!

* jupiter- in awe of the courage & understanding here tonight

<claudia{A> thank you DebiJean, and hugs

<fawrad> is this going to be posted?

<summerain> thank YOU DJ :)) *huggle*

<Kree> softy I dont log, so I hope someone else did

* shalimar agrees with jupiter

<fawrad> i logged it Kree

[poenkitn] yes I have logged it and will post it tomorrow edited for joins and parts

* DebiJean hugs the channel!

<softsmile> thanks poen

* shalimar hugs DJ, especially tightly

<tapestry> thanks poen...*s*...appreciated

<Kree> I would also ask that if anyone that commented doesnt want their comments posted to please tell fawrad so they can be deleted

<softsmile> OH

* poenkitn kisses DJ and is very proud of her

* LordSaber hugs DJ too

*******************************************************************

the rest was just channel talk :)